Discussing UK law. Links: swarb.co.uk | law-index | Acts | Members Image galleries

Social Housing

Social Housing

Postby atticus » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:04 pm

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/aftereffects/

This article by leading housing law solicitor Giles Peaker, in his 'Nearly Legal' blog, on issues in social housing in the aftermath of Grenfell Tower (but not about that disaster) is well worth a careful read.
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19699
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: Social Housing

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:25 pm

What struck me was the reaction by some of the residents of the posh place that some of the survivors are being moved to.
As I understand, these developments are obliged to provide a certain amount of social housing as part of the development, and this is what the survivors are getting.
In which case, it was there when the snobs bought their posh flats and they should have known about it... so how come they're all surprised and kicking up about it being used?
Take me to your lizard...
User avatar
Hairyloon
 
Posts: 10011
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:12 pm
Location: From there to here and here to there... Funny things are everywhere.

Re: Social Housing

Postby dls » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:10 am

It is indeed worth the read.

When you have such a fearful event, it requires of all of us a determination that the truth must be got to in properly based steps, not jumped to from politically predetermined blind spots.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12193
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: Social Housing

Postby diy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:50 am

I do personally think they are over reacting forcibly evicting tenants from these buildings. I'd imagine it would be cheaper to station a fire crew around the clock, than put 100s of people in hotels. I do get that people are concerned for the safety the buildings and their own accountability, but as one resident said, they put it up while they were there, so don't understand why it can't be rectified in the same way.
My suggestions are not legal advice
User avatar
diy
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Social Housing

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:55 am

You obviously saw the leader of Camden Council saying that they had asked the fire brigade to station appliances outside the blocks, but that she had been told that the fire brigade had said that even with that they could not guarantee safety.

Do you understand that what was put up is what creates the increased danger?

DIY: you're the leader of the council. What do you do?
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19699
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: Social Housing

Postby diy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 am

- Its the method of construction combined with the material. It is waterproof on the outside and has an air gap on the inside.
- Offer people the option of temporary accommodation while rework was complete. Not forcibly evict people.
My suggestions are not legal advice
User avatar
diy
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Social Housing

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:47 am

After that digression off topic, may I ask what you thought of Mr Peaker's article?
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19699
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: Social Housing

Postby diy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:21 pm

He doesn't touch on the Building regulation Part L element that the cladding would have provided. He talked about the myth that it was to make social housing look pretty. But little in the media has been said about the benefits. It is without a doubt that the cladding (and I could probably do the calculations more accurately) would have reduced the energy requirements of the each by an avg £150-250 pa, taking in to account they are flats and the external walls are limited. Had it not caught fire, it would have been doing a very good job of keeping people warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

It would also be good from a legal point of view to look at the conflicting requirements of Part L (fuel conservation) and B (fire safety).

He also says social housing isn't subsidised, because the properties (I paraphrase) wash their face in terms of income and outgoings. I'd argue that when things are sold below market rate to certain people, they are subsidised. There are claims that social housing is underfunded, so I struggle with the idea that it can be both covering its costs and be underfunded. There is still a lot of social housing in London, in the "wrong" hands. i.e. in the 1990s social housing blocks were often empty and councils rented them long term to whoever would rent. This has resulted in people with plenty of money having council flats, many of which were able to acquire them at a discounted rate. Of course he may not know this.

Other items are outside the scope of his discussion.
My suggestions are not legal advice
User avatar
diy
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Social Housing

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:19 pm

surely the insulation/energy efficiency and fire safety regulation regulations are not in conflict; both (and others) must be complied with.
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19699
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: Social Housing

Postby diy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:46 pm

The rise in the use of flammable, toxic (when burned) materials has been driven by increasing requirements for thermal efficiency. This has made it impractical to use certain materials. In contrast there has been little change in the removal of flammable materials from fire regulations.

Fire regs take the view that the building will burn, so you delay it long enough for people to get out and you detect it early.

Or to put it another way, it's easy to exceed fire safety requirements in a design, it's very hard to exceed insulation requirements. Building regs are very broad and inspections only cover a limited scope.

I'd argue the balance is probably right, but from a discussion point of view one regulation encourages the use of materials which are less than optimal for the other.
My suggestions are not legal advice
User avatar
diy
 
Posts: 2573
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Next

Return to Landlord and Tenant Law

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron