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What's been said?

Copyright, Trade Marks, Patents, Information Law etc

Re: What's been said?

Postby Hairyloon » Sat May 28, 2016 5:40 pm

atticus wrote:If the call was made but no information about it recorded, it would be wrong to say that the call was not made.

Has anyone said that? :?
The correct statement would be that no record of the conversation was made.

But there should be a record that the call was made, if only on the phone bill. I would expect any public office to have itemised bills.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby atticus » Sat May 28, 2016 6:29 pm

Q1. Yes

Q2. Do you really expect this dept to trawl through thousands of lines in its phone bills? You would have to ask both depts to do this, as you do not know on which bill the detail would appear. Or you could save them the hassle and make your own FOI requests for the two bills.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat May 28, 2016 6:50 pm

If two departments within the same organisation make a call to one another, then there is unlikely to be a record in the itemised bill. Even if there is, how is the call relevant to the matter at hand to be identified?
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Re: What's been said?

Postby Hairyloon » Sat May 28, 2016 11:14 pm

atticus wrote:Q1. Yes

Who and where? :?

Q2. Do you really expect this dept to trawl through thousands of lines in its phone bills? You would have to ask both depts to do this, as you do not know on which bill the detail would appear. Or you could save them the hassle and make your own FOI requests for the two bills.

For someone who so readily advocates the use of a search engine, you seem surprisingly ignorant of the search facilities of a simple text file.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby atticus » Sun May 29, 2016 7:27 am

Of course there will have been only one call between these two departments during the period in question.

But if it should turn out that there have been several, or several hundred, or several thousand, will you conclude they have all been about you?

How will you know that any such calls (and which ones) have been between individuals dealing with your issue?
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Re: What's been said?

Postby Hairyloon » Sun May 29, 2016 10:34 am

atticus wrote:Of course there will have been only one call between these two departments during the period in question.

"Of course" is a bit strong, but very probably. Or possibly not if the call wasn't made.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby diy » Tue May 31, 2016 7:37 pm

Did C express any confidentiality in the information provided to either A or B? Has either A or B breached this confidentiality in discussing the matter brought by C, did they agree to keep the information confidential?
If there is a breach of confidentiality, what remedies exist. e.g. any statutory or contractual obligation not to disclose confidential information.

I can't see an intellectual property angle unless C was proposing some sort pitch.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby dls » Tue May 31, 2016 8:02 pm

information relevant to the client is that the call was not made and if he has a right to see the record then the system must include the facility for telling him that there is no record.


Sorry, but nonsense. It imagines a system which should not exist. There are recognised situations where records should be and are (usually) kept. Recording every interaction between staff within an authority (let alone every interaction which does not take place) would be impossible and silly.
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Re: What's been said?

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:15 am

diy wrote:Did C express any confidentiality in the information provided to either A or B?

No, but could be an interesting "what if" discussion.
I can't see an intellectual property angle unless C was proposing some sort pitch.

Posted here because the sub-heading says "information law". It can be moved if there is a better suggestion.

dls wrote:
information relevant to the client is that the call was not made and if he has a right to see the record then the system must include the facility for telling him that there is no record.


Sorry, but nonsense. It imagines a system which should not exist. There are recognised situations where records should be and are (usually) kept. Recording every interaction between staff within an authority (let alone every interaction which does not take place) would be impossible and silly.

No, you have extrapolated far beyond the premise. Or maybe just missed the "if".
If there is no facility for saying there is no record, then what is a body to do in response to a FoI request for a record that does not exist?
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Re: What's been said?

Postby dls » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:50 pm

'there is no record' is ambiguous. It can mean either
'we do not keep any such records'
or
'we have records, but this is not among them'
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