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Council advise to break law?

Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:55 pm

Well that all sounds to me like a bit of a fudge. I am not doubting that you're right, but I am moved to wonder why it is that it works that way: it seems legalistic rather than straightforward.

But isn't the more relevant point one of a clear lack of joined up thinking?
Whatever the rights or wrongs and ins or outs of it, the "hanging on until the court order" thing is just a delaying tactic: it doesn't actually help anyone.

What are the probable consequences of the proposed course of action? Other than the chap will be homeless a little later down the calendar.
Everybody involved will have a good deal of expensive stress to deal with.
Landlords in general will put up rents to consider the likely risk of requiring court action.
And there is a not inconsiderable chance that after some weeks stood empty, the house will be bought as a "Buy to let" property and be seeking a tenant...

There are well established problems with selling a tenanted house, but I don't believe it beyond the wit of man to disestablish those problems and join the dots.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby atticus » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:36 pm

It helps the council.

You are conflating the ending of a private tenancy and councils' obligations to provide housing.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:48 pm

atticus wrote:It helps the council.

How so? Other than by delaying the onset of their obligations. Which I would concede is of some help, but I am not seeing a good balance of helpfulness.

You are conflating the ending of a private tenancy and councils' obligations to provide housing.


No, I am drawing a link between the two.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby Boo » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:32 am

Hairyloon wrote:Well that all sounds to me like a bit of a fudge. I am not doubting that you're right, but I am moved to wonder why it is that it works that way: it seems legalistic rather than straightforward.

But isn't the more relevant point one of a clear lack of joined up thinking?
Whatever the rights or wrongs and ins or outs of it, the "hanging on until the court order" thing is just a delaying tactic: it doesn't actually help anyone.



It gives the tenant an extra month (which they may not need) to find another private let property.

Everyone has the right to advice and assistance from the council.
Not everyone has the right to be accommodated by the council as mentioned in my previous post; 5 tests of homelessness.
See Part VII of the Housing Act 1996, as amended by the Homelessness Act 2002 - it sets out duties by local authorities have to those who are homeless and threatened with homelessness.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:19 am

Some help but not a balance of helpfulness, eh?

Can you be moved to explain this concept of a balance of helpfulness? Does that phrase appear in the housing or homelessness legislation?
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:20 am

Boo wrote:It gives the tenant an extra month (which they may not need) to find another private let property.

Yes, obviously, but wouldn't everybody be better off if they didn't have to go to court to get that extra month?

atticus wrote:Can you be moved to explain this concept of a balance of helpfulness?

For example, (C) has general responsibilities towards both (A) and (B). In pursuit of those responsibilities, it saves (A) £100, but costs (B) £1000: on balance, it is not helpful.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby Mac&Me » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:31 pm

I have been through this process when my private landlord wanted to sell the property I was living in. I was told by the local council to stay in the property and wait for an eviction notice. On the one hand that is good for the council because they have to act on an eviction notice (they could act without one but choose not to). On the other hand it is bad for the tenant because forcing the landlord to go to court for an eviction notice now labels the tenant a potential troublemaker for other private landlords. New landlords nearly always want a reference from the previous landlord before agreeing to a tenancy and if you forced an eviction notice to be applied for, chances are you wont be getting another private landlord anytime soon.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:46 pm

this balance of helpfulness thing is not a concept used in English law or public administration, and is a red herring.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:34 pm

Back to the topic, the situation derives from the pressure on local authority hosing departments. If you do not have to be rehoused now, or if you have moved out when you do not have to and are therefore not unintentionally homeless, you do not have to be dealt with now. That reduces the immediate pressure on insufficient resources.
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Re: Council advise to break law?

Postby dls » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:38 pm

I am sure that it is indeed unhelpful to the tenant.

Any other arrangement however suggests that anyone asked to leave a private tenancy will automatically be offered council accommodation. I entirely agree that more such should be available, but we are where we are. Thatcher made a shameful decision to sell off council house stock. Councils simply do not have enough available.
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