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Define a Zombie Knife

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Define a Zombie Knife

Postby shootist » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:45 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-office-announces-plans-for-offensive-weapons-bill-to-tackle-serious-violence

Most of this is pretty much nonsense, intended to look like the guvinmint is doing something. Carrying acid is not at the moment a criminal offence per se, so I think criminalising this is possibly the one useful part of the proposals. Zombie knives and the like are just part of the smoke and mirrors approach. I strongly suspect that most knife crime is committed with relatively cheap knives that can be chucked down a drain if a search is about to happen.

Here's the really dangerous part, IMO.

The new offence of possessing certain offensive weapons in private would ensure that in future where the police find a zombie knife, for example, in someone’s home they can arrest and charge the owner with this proposed offence and remove the offensive weapon from the owner.


You are mostly allowed to own and keep offensive weapons in your home. Always have been. Now, not only will you be committing an offence in your own home for possessing a particular type of knife which, incidentally figures only rarely in crime, but can arrest you, it is said, even when the arrest is, by definition, no longer necessary, which necessity is currently a legal requirement, because they will have removed the knife! So, they have to specify what is a 'Zombie Knife[ (!) but, that definition will no doubt be contained within subordinate legislation which could be changed by a minister's signature. Zombie knives today, any knife with a point tomorrow, no knives whatever tomorrow, and in your own home.

When will people realise that if you are relying upon the police to keep crime in a particular society under control, the problem lies within that society, not with police resources.
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." MLK.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:59 pm

One of the most interesting, and disappointing, aspects of this forum, which is centred upon the law, is the tendency for some contributors to dismiss, or just ignore, the current law when that law is directed against people or principles they agree with.

There is no need to define a Zombie knife. That definition has already been made in The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2016:

“(s)the weapon sometimes known as a “zombie knife”, “zombie killer knife” or “zombie slayer knife”, being a blade with—
(i)a cutting edge;
(ii)a serrated edge; and
(iii)images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence.”.


Amendments to that definition cannot me made by ministerial signature; a Statutory Instrument to do so is subject to the affirmative vote procedure - a proposal must be approved by both Houses of Parliament.

I agree that there is something wrong with a society that permits people to keep such offensive weaponry at home; and therefore I welcome the Government taking this opportunity to change that society by making it clear that owning these items is unacceptable. Governments influence society by, inter alia, passing laws. How would you prefer them to do so, make a worthy public information film?

No, the Government is not going to stop you from keeping all knives in your own home. Whatever sensible point you might have been trying to make is undermined by this somewhat deranged comment.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:29 pm

Introducing the "Something Must be Done Bill 2018"...
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:55 pm

Perhaps you should provide some evidence for your first point.

There is all sorts of weaponry which we are not allowed to keep at home. I would not permit people to keep anything plainly intended to be and designed as a weapon in their own home without a bloody good reason.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Jinxer » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:00 pm

Why have laws that make anything an offensive weapon. In your own home you should be allowed to have whatever you want to have. Criminals will always be criminals whatever legislation says. Making something illegal only increases crime not reduce it.
It's ok your children are safe, they're locked away behind barbed wire gates. If you don't comply sir they'll send you another fine sir.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby shootist » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:13 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Perhaps you should provide some evidence for your first point.


Anecdotal only, but it is often quoted that it wasn't until drinking and driving because socially unacceptable that figures declined significantly. From personal experience I found this to be true. It was only in the later years of my police service that drinking and driving seemed less regular and that the attitude of the public changed from 'bad luck for getting caught' to regarding drink driving as unacceptable.

Smouldering Stoat wrote:There is all sorts of weaponry which we are not allowed to keep at home. I would not permit people to keep anything plainly intended to be and designed as a weapon in their own home without a bloody good reason.


What weapons are we not allowed to keep at home? I don't mean poison darts, WMD, ricin umbrellas and the like. Some ordinary weapons if you please.

You would ban anyone from keeping anything plainly intended and designed to be a weapon in their home without a bloody good reason. Could you explain what you consider to be a 'bloody good reason'? I would really like to read what you would consider to be a bloody good reason.
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." MLK.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:06 am

"Please list some weapons which you are not allowed to keep at home, but please don't include any of these weapons which you are not allowed to keep at home." is not an indication that you intend to debate with any sincerity. I think my words speak for themselves.

Your response to this will, of course, be boringly predictable.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby diy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:17 am

Rambo or survival knives would meet the criteria as would my diving knife, which is attached above the engine hatch on my boat. Or does it need writing on it?
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:23 am

The definition is set out above and is quite clear.
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Re: Define a Zombie Knife

Postby shootist » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:07 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:"Please list some weapons which you are not allowed to keep at home, but please don't include any of these weapons which you are not allowed to keep at home." is not an indication that you intend to debate with any sincerity. I think my words speak for themselves.

Your response to this will, of course, be boringly predictable.


As is your non-answer. You are unable to justify what I consider to be an incredibly stupid statement, "I would not permit people to keep anything plainly intended to be and designed as a weapon in their own home without a bloody good reason." so you duck out, complaining of style while ignoring inconvenient substance. Your words certainly do speak for themselves, but they're not saying what you think they're saying.

Let's examine that statement though. It could be complete if ending "...without a reason." No reason is needed at present, so needing a reason would itself mean a rewrite of the law. A "good reason" implies a stronger requirement of justification than just a "reason" and a "bloody good reason" is clearly reaching out towards the extremities of any possible reason. You are clearly advocating the complete removal of any weapons from every person's home except in the most extreme of circumstances. Clearly, you wish to leave the vast majority of people in this country without the ability to choose to effectively defend themselves in their own home. Moreover, your choice would disproportionately affect the weaker members of society. A 20 stone karate black belt may not need a weapon to dissuade a home invader. A 68 year old (no, not him, me) would need all the help he can get.
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