Discussing UK law. Links: swarb.co.uk | law-index | Acts | Members Image galleries

Jurors should be tested

All matters involving criminal law

Re: Jurors should be tested

Postby megaman » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:47 pm

megaman wrote:
shootist wrote:
megaman wrote:they could be hidden from view so only the tone of voice and style of speaking can be heard
ect


But aren't tone of voice and style of speaking subjective issues? You are contradicting yourself.




No, they are exact and measurable
if you were to record them with identical recording devices you would get the same output and the entire thing could be converted into a specific stream of numbers.
any sort of computer based camera or audio recording device does this.
of course a witnesses perception/memory of them is different, this would be subjective and would change from one person to the next

However the issue in question is not that voice and style of speaking subjective issues ( and other matters regarding a persons presentation ) are subjective its the fact that the reason for them is subjective and theirfore there is no possible way for another person to know what they are so he can conclude nothing about that person from them.

I fail to see the contradiction here.
megaman
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:55 pm

Re: Jurors should be tested

Postby shootist » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:06 pm

megaman wrote:No, they are exact and measurable
if you were to record them with identical recording devices you would get the same output and the entire thing could be converted into a specific stream of numbers.
any sort of computer based camera or audio recording device does this.
of course a witnesses perception/memory of them is different, this would be subjective and would change from one person to the next


You prove my point in that last sentence. The witness and the jurors are both required. Accordingly, you must reflect upon the juror's perceptions which are bound to be subjective., so the result will be subjective. Multiply a positive with a negative and the result is, IIRC, always a negative.

megaman wrote:However the issue in question is not that voice and style of speaking subjective issues ( and other matters regarding a persons presentation ) are subjective its the fact that the reason for them is subjective and theirfore there is no possible way for another person to know what they are so he can conclude nothing about that person from them.


You have mislaid the pilot somewhere I think. I queried the value of a system you proposed in which the voice and style of speaking would be acceptable to your idea of a fair hearing, yet the result would inevitably be subjective regardless of how it came to be so, a quality you seek to remove. Not knowing the reason for a witness's way of speaking is no bar to a juror wrongly forming an incorrect, wholly subjective, opinion about that witness. Much like the stammering issue in the incident quoted.

megaman wrote:I fail to see the contradiction here.


Which would appear to be part of the problem.
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." MLK.
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3822
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Jurors should be tested

Postby dls » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:17 am

Mm, you have a particular, unique and probably very lonely view of matters.
Many people would share doubts about the reliability of the interpretation, and the over confidence of others. However, the true answer is to simply acknowledge the difficulties,and to factor them in as ineitable limitatins.

I would have no faith at all in anything like the answers you suggest. They swap one uncertain indiscernible for a worse one.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12517
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Previous

Return to Crime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron