Discussing UK law. Links: swarb.co.uk | law-index | Acts | Members Image galleries

2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

All matters involving criminal law

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby dls » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:18 am

'Pounding somebody's head with a hammer does not equate to assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Actual bodily harm means bruising. No blood, nothing broken, no persisting injury.
If I slap you on the face hard enough to leave finger marks - that is ABH.

The judge can only sentence on the basis of the particular offence alleged and the facts found or agreed. I suspect that the wording does not reflect the case presented to the court by the prosecution. It sounds like a bored newspaper hacks gross exaggeration - pounding the story with a hammer until it bleeds.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12269
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby dls » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:25 am

So you don't think pounding someone's head with a hammer saying


Sadly is very indicative. The job of the journalist is to lead you off into t=your own red mist. Read the actual article. Even the journalist does not say that he was hit with the hammer - only that she 'tried to'. I am sure of two things: it is difficult to imagine how she might miss, and that the journalist would certainly not have used the phrase 'tried to' if he didn't have to. Instead he relied upon the fact that he didn't have to - he could rely on the reader to make his own exaggeration.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12269
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby shootist » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:03 am

dls wrote:'Pounding somebody's head with a hammer does not equate to assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Actual bodily harm means bruising. No blood, nothing broken, no persisting injury.
If I slap you on the face hard enough to leave finger marks - that is ABH.

The judge can only sentence on the basis of the particular offence alleged and the facts found or agreed. I suspect that the wording does not reflect the case presented to the court by the prosecution. It sounds like a bored newspaper hacks gross exaggeration - pounding the story with a hammer until it bleeds.


Technically correct, but the charging standards have been used to effectively remove the right to trial for ABH on the majority of occasions by undercharging as a policy. Most assaults that would have been charged as ABH for which the defendants could elect trial when I joined the police would, following the adoption of the charging standards for assault, now be charged as common assault which is summary only. I have quite often seen what would have once been considered a fairly serious ABH charged as common assault. Nice that ACPO and CPS can conspire together to remove the right to trial by jury without needing to bother parliament.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3561
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby Russell » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:16 am

The details of the law might be one thing, but even going on what is reported to have happened two years is perfetic :(
If you can't talk about the problem, how are you ever going to even start talking about the solution?
Russell
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby atticus » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:27 am

Perfect?

But why, al, are you "going on what is reported"? See what dls has just said.
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19886
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby atticus » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:30 am

There was a trial, according to that news report. It took place before a judge. IIRC there were guilty pleas.
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 19886
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby shootist » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:13 am

It wouldn't be the first time that people have pleaded guilty because they were woefully undercharged. Not that I'm saying this happened in this case, but it certainly does happen.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3561
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby Maz JP » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:20 am

shootist wrote:. Nice that ACPO and CPS can conspire together to remove the right to trial by jury without needing to bother parliament.

I haven't sat for a few days; has Parliament removed the right for people to elect trial at a Crown Court in that period?
Maz JP
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:51 pm

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby dls » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:22 am

They were sentenced in the Crown Court - so, while comments about charging standards might be appropriate in other cases,in this case, no part of the logic relayed by Shootist applies.

They pleaded guilty. That does suggest a possibility of a deal having been done which effectively limited the Judge's sentencing ability. The deal (if - and we are guessing at the very most - a deal was done). A judge has no part in what charges are laid against a defendant - he cannot say to the prosecutor 'I know you think this is ABH, but I think it was GBH, so I am substituting a more weighty charge.'

A guilty plea allows a prosecutor not to have to call the victim to give evidence, and a defendant forgoes any right to cross examine the complainant. There is a possibility (guessing again) that the complainant was terrified about giving evidence, and the prosecutor had to agree a plea to a lesser charge. That does not seem to have stopped the prosecutor going for the gullet in his description of events. Nor did it stop the reporter adding his own bit of enthusiasm.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12269
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: 2 years for kidnap and attempted murder?

Postby Russell » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:33 am

atticus wrote:Perfect?

But why, al, are you "going on what is reported"? See what dls has just said.


Oops, Pathetic.
If you can't talk about the problem, how are you ever going to even start talking about the solution?
Russell
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:47 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Crime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BakersDozen and 1 guest