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Bail conditions

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Bail conditions

Postby shootist » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:23 pm

When police are seeking to bail someone for a crime, is the imposition of bail conditions dependent upon the nature of the crime. For example, a person is arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud, say for a mortgage deal. Would it be permissible for the police to seek (or a court impose, at the request of the police) conditions to prevent the accused visiting a part of the country that has absolutely no connection with the alleged fraud or anyone involved in any way in it? No flight risk is at all relevant.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby diy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:47 pm

My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby shootist » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:15 am

An interesting read but it doesn't seem to suggest anywhere that bail conditions should be pertinent to the offence charged.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby atticus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:20 am

It does appear to address the reasons for bail conditions: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/bail/#a12

This suggests that risk of reoffending is a relevant consideration.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby diy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:53 am

Its here http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/bail/#a12

based on your description, it doesn't sound like it:
prosecutors must ensure that that they are necessary, reasonable, proportionate and capable of being enforced.


The court must be satisfied that such a condition is necessary and, in doing so, ought to consider whether its imposition might have unexpected and unjust results: R v Kwame 60 Cr. App. R. 65


Is this what you are looking for?
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby shootist » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:02 pm

Thanks to both. While those sections do tend to indicate what I'm looking for. I was hoping there might be something statutory. I am starting to research, sort of, the background of a public figure. If even half of what he says has happened to him is true, the abuse of the law by the police in dealing with him is breath taking.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby atticus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:29 pm

"If even half of what he says is true..."

That gives it away: it's Paul Nuttall.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby shootist » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:49 pm

atticus wrote:"If even half of what he says is true..."

That gives it away: it's Paul Nuttall.


A vaguely amusing comment on the unfortunate road that politics can sometimes take but not correct, although it doesn't rule out just about any politician in the country. It's not Abbot though, she just gets half the answers wrong three quarters of the time.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby Maz JP » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:47 pm

shootist wrote:When police are seeking to bail someone for a crime, is the imposition of bail conditions dependent upon the nature of the crime. For example, a person is arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud, say for a mortgage deal. Would it be permissible for the police to seek (or a court impose, at the request of the police) conditions to prevent the accused visiting a part of the country that has absolutely no connection with the alleged fraud or anyone involved in any way in it? No flight risk is at all relevant.

I would want to know why any restrictions on his movements are proposed given that the charge is one of fraud. Typically, the only time that we impose geographical restrictions are in cases where there might be vulnerable witnesses involved, (so you should not visit where they live, as an example), or where a pattern of alleged repeated offending has occurred (again by way of example, you might prohibit someone from entering the shopping centre if there has been a series of thefts alleged). That is by no means an exhaustive list, but you get the point; there is normally a connection between the bail condition and the alleged crime.

To be honest I can't think of any reasons that you could give me that would satisfy this request. Maybe that just shows my lack of imagination.
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Re: Bail conditions

Postby shootist » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:57 pm

Maz JP wrote: I would want to know why any restrictions on his movements are proposed given that the charge is one of fraud. Typically, the only time that we impose geographical restrictions are in cases where there might be vulnerable witnesses involved, (so you should not visit where they live, as an example), or where a pattern of alleged repeated offending has occurred (again by way of example, you might prohibit someone from entering the shopping centre if there has been a series of thefts alleged). That is by no means an exhaustive list, but you get the point; there is normally a connection between the bail condition and the alleged crime.


That's pretty much what I have understood bail conditions are about.

Maz JP wrote:To be honest I can't think of any reasons that you could give me that would satisfy this request. Maybe that just shows my lack of imagination.


The trouble is, it has happened. A complete abuse of the system for a political purpose. And it's just the tip of the iceberg.
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