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Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby 3.14 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:39 pm

shootist wrote:The next thing is that someone will say that they are taking the law into their own hands.
Police used to always say that to us when I was a member of the Guardian Angels. When we patrolled Kings Cross and Brixton, the Police who normally are nowhere to be seen would be forced to come out and patrol also.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby shootist » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:00 pm

Boo wrote:Will you be offering your services to assist DJ?
You say you've served 22 years in the police force - you may just have the right skills they need. Unless you are already committed - employment wise.
I'd say you'd be perfect for this kind of job.


I joined the police, like so many have, wanting to save the world. After 6 months I realised I couldn't even save Beaufort Street. After 42 years of serving my country in some or other fashion it's on it's own as far as I'm concerned. I also happen to think that there are bigger, more worthy, fish to fry on this issue. The best of luck to DJ as far as I'm concerned, but it's not for me.

Boo wrote:The point of close supervision; Boundary issues. Information overload. To look for signs of desensitisation.


You think it unlikely they haven't thought of these issues themselves? The first two are almost self defining, the last is one that no doubt has been discussed. I'm fairly sure, especially in light of the success DJ had had to date, that they are a bit better than a bunch of well meaning twits that have just got lucky.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby Boo » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:10 pm

I think it quite likely they can do whatever they want because they aren't being regulated. But I'm a cynical so and so...
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby shootist » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:00 pm

Boo wrote:I think it quite likely they can do whatever they want because they aren't being regulated. But I'm a cynical so and so...


I think, but perhaps I'm wrong, it's possible in theory at least, that there are a few laws they have to take notice of. Things like perjury if their evidence goes to trial, absolutely no lynchings, and health and safety prevents the objects of their attentions being burnt at the stake. Various social services department are regulated to within an inch of their lives but still seem, on occasions, to do whatever they want, or to not do what they should. Perhaps regulation isn't all its cracked up to be.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby 3.14 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:15 pm

As a matter of law, how is anyone that meets with them breaking a law? Regardless of what age they thought someone was, the fact is that the age of the person they actually meet is over the age of 18.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:26 pm

3.14 wrote:As a matter of law, how is anyone that meets with them breaking a law? Regardless of what age they thought someone was, the fact is that the age of the person they actually meet is over the age of 18.

Presumably the idea is to identify suspects for closer investigation.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:51 pm

3.14 wrote:As a matter of law, how is anyone that meets with them breaking a law? Regardless of what age they thought someone was, the fact is that the age of the person they actually meet is over the age of 18.


I wonder if the Boss has a note for R v Shivpuri? A person is guilty of an offence under s. 1 pf the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 where, if the facts were as that person believed them to be, the full offence would have been committed by him, but where on the true facts the offence which that person set out to commit was in law impossible. In that case the defendant was convicted of attempting to import a controlled substance: although the substance he imported wasn't controlled, he thought it was. The same applies in these cases. The defendant is not guilty of the principal offence, but he is guilty of the inchoate offence, because he believes that he's contacting a minor.

I do worry about these cases. Evidence is being collected in a way that is not subject to the normal restrictions. We've regulated these things because bitter experience has taught us over the years that it's necessary to do so to avoid miscarriages of justice.
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:12 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:The defendant is not guilty of the principal offence, but he is guilty of the inchoate offence, because he believes that he's contacting a minor.

Is it illegal to contact a minor?
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:25 pm

Not per se, no. But that the person is not in fact a minor is the relevant error of fact that renders the defendant guilty of attempting to commit an offence contrary to s. 15 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (Meeting a child following sexual grooming).
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Re: Judge says undercover paedophile hunters can continue

Postby dls » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:19 pm

The dangers of this kind of crap (thanks 3.14)

https://www.theabi.org.uk/news/bbc-secr ... to-go-free
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