Discussing UK law. Links: swarb.co.uk | law-index | Acts | Members Image galleries

defendants remorse

All matters involving criminal law

defendants remorse

Postby megaman » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:40 am

In England does remorse from the defendant result in a lower sentance?

if yes why

How is the defendants remorse measured?

I have recently read an article which points out that there is no way to know if or no someone has remorse and that to reduce sentences based on remorse only allows those who are lucky enough to look remorseful to be treated more leaniantly.
megaman
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:55 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby shootist » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:03 am

megaman wrote:I have recently read an article which points out that there is no way to know if or no someone has remorse and that to reduce sentences based on remorse only allows those who are clever enough to look remorseful to be treated more leaniantly.


If a defendant has resolutely denied guilt throughout a trial, possibly because he actually didn't commit the crime, but is convicted, is it better or worse for him to then show remorse or defiance?
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby Boo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:33 am

megaman wrote:In England does remorse from the defendant result in a lower sentance?

if yes why

How is the defendants remorse measured?


When a defendant is convicted - the court can ask for a PSR* from Probation and/or a report from a Psychiatrist.
These reports may include how remorseful (or not) the defendant is - based on face to face meetings and assessments.
They carry a lot of weight with regard to sentencing.

Maz and Danny will be able to shed more light on this.


*Pre Sentence Report
God - "I have made Mankind!"
Angels - "You screwed up a perfectly good monkey is what you did. Look at it. It's got anxiety!"
User avatar
Boo
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: On the edge!

Re: defendants remorse

Postby dls » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:38 am

How is the defendants remorse measured?


It isn't. There are not units of remorse.

Yo seem los in a world of puzzlement that assorted characteristics are not measured - it is asif you think others do measure them. They do not.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12136
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: defendants remorse

Postby Maz JP » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:31 pm

shootist wrote:If a defendant has resolutely denied guilt throughout a trial, possibly because he actually didn't commit the crime, but is convicted, is it better or worse for him to then show remorse or defiance?


I don't think it makes any difference. If/she/he has denied the crime, any subsequent remorse that is shown is more likely to be remorse that she/he was caught or convicted rather than remorse about the offence.

Whilst sentencing can take account of remorse, we need to be very careful in understanding what we mean about the word. As an example there are many times when remorse is actually obvious from the evidence presented at trial. I recall, for instance, a case of a dangerous stabbing, where the defendant had actually held the victim in his arms, sobbing, whilst waiting for the ambulance. That's at the top end of the scale, but you take my point : genuine remorse can be actually evidenced by actions. And in these cases, I think it is right that it is reflected in sentencing.

Dls is of course right; it can't be measured. But it can be observed. In my own view, remorse that is observed prior to the trial (say, in police interviews etc) is more likely to be genuine that remorse that appears late in the day in the dock, but I wouldn't make any hard and fast rule about it.

As for remorse in the dock, in the absence of anything else more evidentiary, I am a bit chary for the obvious reasons. And also because one has to be wary that the articulate and persuasive defendant is not given any advantage over those who are less comfortable with words, and who may well now be very sorry but lack the verbal skills to express it.
Maz JP
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:51 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby DannyJP » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:40 am

Maz JP wrote:In my own view, remorse that is observed prior to the trial (say, in police interviews etc) is more likely to be genuine that remorse that appears late in the day in the dock, but I wouldn't make any hard and fast rule about it.

As for remorse in the dock, in the absence of anything else more evidentiary, I am a bit chary for the obvious reasons. And also because one has to be wary that the articulate and persuasive defendant is not given any advantage over those who are less comfortable with words, and who may well now be very sorry but lack the verbal skills to express it.


I agree entirely. I generally find post-conviction remorse in a pre-sentence report rather unconvincing - they have put the victim through trial, been found guilty and now profess remorse.
User avatar
DannyJP
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby diy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:33 pm

This is a good guide on the sorts of things that impact sentencing
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_ ... principles

ranges from "The basis of plea" an attempt at a deal, to discount for early guilty plea.

Having watched the tv program about benefits fraud, it amazes me why guilty people argue their innocence in the face of all odds and innocent people plead guilty to get the whole thing over with. It suggests to me that its vital that an accused properly understands the nature of the charges, burden of evidence etc. before entering a plea.
My suggestions are not legal advice
User avatar
diy
 
Posts: 2545
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby shootist » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:54 pm

diy wrote:Having watched the tv program about benefits fraud, it amazes me why guilty people argue their innocence in the face of all odds and innocent people plead guilty to get the whole thing over with. It suggests to me that its vital that an accused properly understands the nature of the charges, burden of evidence etc. before entering a plea.


Part of the problem is that by contesting a charge you are acting like someone in a casino who increases the bet to try and win more. Even if you have a reasonably good defence it remains a lottery to some extent and it is quite possible that the result of contesting a charge will be a more severe sentence if you lose the bet. Likewise, a person for whom petty crime and benefits are a way of life, the bet becomes one where you might win an acquittal but if you lose then all you get is a government sponsored roof over your head and some free, albeit not always that great, meals a day and sometimes the family benefits for those left outside can increase while the offender is inside. The judicial system can be a cynics paradise sometime.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: defendants remorse

Postby dls » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:29 pm

it amazes me why guilty people argue their innocence in the face of all odds and innocent people plead guilty to get the whole thing over with.


It is the absolute commonplace of criminal practice.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12136
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: defendants remorse

Postby 3.14 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:35 pm

shootist wrote:
diy wrote:Having watched the tv program about benefits fraud, it amazes me why guilty people argue their innocence in the face of all odds and innocent people plead guilty to get the whole thing over with. It suggests to me that its vital that an accused properly understands the nature of the charges, burden of evidence etc. before entering a plea.


Part of the problem is that by contesting a charge you are acting like someone in a casino who increases the bet to try and win more. Even if you have a reasonably good defence it remains a lottery to some extent and it is quite possible that the result of contesting a charge will be a more severe sentence if you lose the bet. Likewise, a person for whom petty crime and benefits are a way of life, the bet becomes one where you might win an acquittal but if you lose then all you get is a government sponsored roof over your head and some free, albeit not always that great, meals a day and sometimes the family benefits for those left outside can increase while the offender is inside. The judicial system can be a cynics paradise sometime.

You make it sound like a good idea for the poor.
Hide in the noise. #hackerwisdom
User avatar
3.14
 
Posts: 2121
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:58 pm

Next

Return to Crime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron