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Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exist?

All matters involving criminal law

Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Tue May 23, 2017 10:22 pm

And yet, I used the right you said would be denied. I had a solicitor for free.

The sources I have quoted are the College of Policing and firms of Solicitors. You do not believe them to be reputable. You're entitled to that opinion, but please post a link to a more reputable source to support your assertions.

Again, s 58 is not relevant to people attending voluntarily at a police station. We would not expect to find their rights described there.

Now, either of us may be wrong. If I'm wrong*, the worst that can happen is that someone asks for something they're not entitled to. If you're wrong, the worst that can happen is that someone doesn't ask for a solicitor when they could have had one. Happy to have that on your conscience?

*Spoiler alert: I'm not wrong.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Tue May 23, 2017 10:34 pm

Incidentally, spanky may be being misled by the latest version of Code C. In the case of non-imprisonable offences, legal advice is indeed restricted to telephone advice, unless one of the exceptions applies. The first exception is that the Police wish to interview the detainee, so it's not relevant to this discussion.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Spankymonkey » Tue May 23, 2017 10:45 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:And yet, I used the right you said would be denied. I had a solicitor for free.

The sources I have quoted are the College of Policing and firms of Solicitors. You do not believe them to be reputable. You're entitled to that opinion, but please post a link to a more reputable source to support your assertions.


No you didn't. You posted the college of policing and a police website. If you don't even know where you are cutting and pasting from what hope do you have of furthering your argument? And I find it amusing that you think the UGOV website and Unlock are not reputable sources, but Bedfordshire police's advice to its officers is.

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Again, s 58 is not relevant to people attending voluntarily at a police station. We would not expect to find their rights described there.

That's not what you said in your last posting. Again, moving the goalposts won't help either. Where are their rights described in law by the way? Except for police websites. Not even section 58 uses the words 'for free' when it sets out rights of access to a solicitor. Is that because s58 isn't relevant to poor people so we wouldn't expect to find their rights described there?

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Now, either of us may be wrong. If I'm wrong*, the worst that can happen is that someone asks for something they're not entitled to. If you're wrong, the worst that can happen is that someone doesn't ask for a solicitor when they could have had one. Happy to have that on your conscience?



Oh naturally stoat, I would be mortified if somebody I had never met came here, read this thread, ignored the no advice rule and then refused to ask for a solicitor because some bloke he had never met had been misinterpreted by another bloke he had never met on some forum on the internet he knew nothing about. I don't think I'd be able to sleep.

As for your experiences in the police station, I will just have to take your word for it. The fact that I am not prepared to share my own experiences on this matter in a bid to convince someone in such hostile opposition as you to the contrary, should in no way make your one experience the benchmark for all police station advice.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed May 24, 2017 4:54 am

Nor are your own experiences necessary typical. But if you wish to believe that you are the only one who is right, that is your prerogative. Others follow at their own risk.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Spankymonkey » Tue May 30, 2017 6:13 pm

If you still doubt me, then you should take a look at the “2017 Standard Crime Contract” issued by the Legal Aid Agency.

This is the official policy on police station advice and assistance The contract shows quite clearly that not everyone is entitled to speak to a solicitor of their choosing, or the duty solicitor, for free.

(SPOILER ALERT: I’m right)


9.1 You may provide Police Station Advice and Assistance under this Unit of
Work to a Client (including a Volunteer) on an Own Client basis or as a
Police Station Duty Solicitor during a Criminal Investigation, unless the
Matter is a Criminal Defence Direct Matter which is excluded from the
scope of this Specification (see Paragraphs 9.8 to 9.13).


The crime contract then sets out in detail the type of police station advice that falls within the Criminal Defence Direct
scheme. None of which are covered by the Legal Aid Agency contract and cannot be claimed for:

9.9
(a) Client detained in relation to any non-imprisonable offence;
(b) Client arrested on a bench warrant for failing to appear and being
held for production before the court, except where you have clear
documentary evidence available that would result in the Client being
released from custody, in which case attendance may be allowed
provided that the reason is recorded on file;
(c) Client arrested on suspicion of:
(i) driving with excess alcohol, who is taken to the Police Station
to give a specimen (Section 5 Road Traffic Act 1988);
(ii) failure to provide a specimen (Sections 6, 7 and 7A Road Traffic
Act 1988); or
(iii) driving whilst unfit/drunk in charge of a motor vehicle (Section
4 Road Traffic Act 1988); or
(d) Client detained in relation to breach of police or court bail conditions.


The contract goes on to point out that if somebody refuses to accept telephone advice from Criminal Defence Direct then they are - in effect - screwed:


9.12 If Criminal Defence Direct is unable to provide Police Station Telephone
Advice in a Criminal Defence Direct Matter then that Matter is not a
Criminal Defence Direct Matter for the purposes of this Specification and
you may provide Police Station Advice and Assistance in accordance with
this Specification. This Paragraph does not apply in circumstances where a
Client simply refuses to accept advice from Criminal Defence Direct.


Furthermore, any requests for a solicitor (own or duty) from a detainee once at the station must ALWAYS be directed through the Criminal Defence call centre first. If you are not eligible to speak to a solicitor FOR FREE, as re section 9.9, then you will be told by the call handler. It’s then up to you to decide if you want to pay for representation or not. Otherwise the call handlers at the Criminal Defence call centre will be happy to give you free legal advice. None of whom are solicitors.

Oh, and if you are a solicitor thinking of advising a client without receiving notice from DSCC (or giving notice to them), then good luck trying to cash in your chips:

9.19 Subject to Paragraph 9.20, you must not make any Claim for payment for Police Station Advice and Assistance given to a Client in relation to whom you have received your instructions directly, rather than through the DSCC, and any work carried out on this basis is not Contract Work.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Tue May 30, 2017 10:24 pm

That is not cut and pasted from the Standard Crime Contract. It is a selective quotation from part of the Crime Specification, which is not wholly relevant.

However, I invite you to read them again. CDD is not able to give telephone advice where the exceptions in Code C we discussed earlier apply; for our purposes the most important is that the Police wish to interview the detainee.

9.12 If Criminal Defence Direct is unable to provide Police Station Telephone Advice in a Criminal Defence Direct Matter then that Matter is not a Criminal Defence Direct Matter for the purposes of this Specification and you may provide Police Station Advice and Assistance in accordance with this Specification.


Again, your advice is dangerous.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Spankymonkey » Tue May 30, 2017 11:47 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:That is not cut and pasted from the Standard Crime Contract. It is a selective quotation from part of the Crime Specification, which is not wholly relevant.

However, I invite you to read them again. CDD is not able to give telephone advice where the exceptions in Code C we discussed earlier apply; for our purposes the most important is that the Police wish to interview the detainee.

9.12 If Criminal Defence Direct is unable to provide Police Station Telephone Advice in a Criminal Defence Direct Matter then that Matter is not a Criminal Defence Direct Matter for the purposes of this Specification and you may provide Police Station Advice and Assistance in accordance with this Specification.


Again, your advice is dangerous.


You need to stop accusing me of offering advice Stoat. I am not offering anyone any advice, as I have said repeatedly throughout this thread. I am posting this just to prove you wrong, no other reason. However, if anyone's advice is dangerous, it's yours, by suggesting everyone is entitled to a free solicitor when I have just showed you proof that is not the case. And if there were further terms to be found in Code C that qualify the contract terms then it would be stated in the contract, and you know it would.

Nothing I have said here is an attempt to dissuade anyone from asking for a solicitor. Quite the opposite. If it's to be taken as anything then it would be fair warning of what could happen at the police station. Your determination to label all of my rebuttals to your opinion, as being advice and 'dangerous' is alarmist and a gross exaggeration. I am simply putting an opposing point of view on a debate on a public forum. If you would rather continue the discussion in private, so as to protect whoever you think I am a menace to, then we can do so.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -terms.pdf

I wouldn't expect you to admit to being wrong, but just suggesting I don't know what document I am quoting from, is insulting.

The contract is at the above link. Take a look at the words "2017 Standard Crime Contract" written in bold on the first page, then tell me none of it's relevant. Not relevant to your argument, yes, but it is very relevant to people who go into a police station to be interviewed about a non imprisonable offence and then find out they will be palmed off with the call centre.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed May 31, 2017 4:54 am

I invite others to click on that link (which is indeed to the current contract), scroll down to Part 9, and see for themselves whether the quoted words appear.
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Labrador » Wed May 31, 2017 9:16 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:I invite others to click on that link (which is indeed to the current contract), scroll down to Part 9, and see for themselves whether the quoted words appear.



No thanks I'm in agreement with spammy!
You don't like being proved wrong do you? :mrgreen:
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Re: Called in for questioning by the Police, what rights exi

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed May 31, 2017 9:37 am

Click on the link, and see for yourself.
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