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Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby dls » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:39 pm

I suggest that we reform the process by which the representatives are selected, such that we can find some that can be trusted.


Sorry, but quite hopeless. The system we have is that they are (usually) selected by local parties whose self interest is in finding someone fairly reliable.

After that is we elect them, and they prove unreliable, we do not re-elect. No system can provide the guarantees you want.

If you look at the New Labour gang, they were very probably all reliable when first selected - but power corrupts. They fell into the eventual state of evil.

Perhaps the right thing would be to ban anybody being re-elected more than twice, but that brings in its own severe difficulties.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:52 pm

I have always favoured "Term Limits" allowing for a maximum of 8 to 10 years. (3 x 3 years, 2 x 4 years or 2 x 5 years)

Politics was never intended to be and indeed should not be seen as a long-term career move. Thus, new blood and new ideas would be assured instead of having deadbeats in office for decades, simply because the longer they hold office, the more familiar their name becomes when seen on a ballot paper. Newcomers names are generally not well known, and disadvantages their chances of winning.

I have always admired the clear-cut rule the USA has limiting its Presidents to 2 terms of office.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:05 pm

A system which would have required that well-known deadbeat Sir Winston Churchill to retire in 1910 is perhaps in need of some further work. Though as Margaret Thatcher would have had to go back to the ice cream factory in 1969 maybe it does have its advantages.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:22 pm

But, the current president excepted, US presidents have held previous political office. The Presidency is something they move on to. The present incumbent excepted, by the time they leave office, US Presidents will have held one elected office or another for more than 8 years.

In the UK, the PM has to be a Member of the House of Commons. There is no PM that I can think of who had not first been an MP for at least two Parliaments.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Although deadbeat St Nige could have been put out to grass (or maybe stud) after two elected terms.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:42 pm

atticus wrote:Although deadbeat St Nige could have been put out to grass (or maybe stud) after two elected terms.


Yes, if we are looking for a class of people to ban from standing in elections, people who have a history of losing elections ought to be higher up the list then people who have won them.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby shootist » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:28 pm

atticus wrote:Although deadbeat St Nige could have been put out to grass (or maybe stud) after two elected terms.


You are very dismissive of one of the most influential British politicians for the last decade. If it wasn't for him I doubt we would have had the referendum and, like it or not, that was one of the most major influences on British politics, possibly since the last war.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:31 pm

He has served more than two terms as an elected politician. That makes him a deadbeat. minger says so.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:44 pm

Mr Farage's Parliamentary Election History:

1994: Fourth
1997: Fourth
2001: Fourth
2005: Fourth
2006: Third
2010: Third*
2015: Second

Yes, very influential. He's never been elected to so much as a Parish Council in his own right: I've won more elections than he has. He is adept at one thing: self-promotion. He's successfully claimed credit for the referendum, which was far more to do with the internal party management of the Conservative Party than anything else.

*The 2010 General Election campaign was notable, of course, because Mr Farage stood in Buckingham, Mr Speaker's seat, where by tradition the major parties didn't stand. Yes, he came third in a two horse race.
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Re: Lessons in democracy by Nigel Farage...

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:06 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:
atticus wrote:Although deadbeat St Nige could have been put out to grass (or maybe stud) after two elected terms.


Yes, if we are looking for a class of people to ban from standing in elections, people who have a history of losing elections ought to be higher up the list then people who have won them.

I'm not following your argument here: if they're that good at loosing then what is the point of banning them? That just creates paperwork and loses the entry fee...
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