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Come 2022

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: Come 2022

Postby atticus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:59 pm

What must you add dishonourably?
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Re: Come 2022

Postby BakersDozen » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:11 am

atticus wrote:What must you add dishonourably?


You believe the EU are with honour?
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Re: Come 2022

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:33 am

BakersDozen wrote::mrgreen:
Smouldering Stoat wrote:Yes, the referendum is being honoured. The form of Brexit was not specified on the ballot paper.


remind me on again how much did the government spend on sending a flyer through my letter box giving detail as to what it meant


Nothing. The form of Brexit was not specified.

how many hours on tv was i told what it was


None. The form of Brexit was not specified. Indeed, many pro-Brexit campaigners stressed that it was not necessary to leave the Single Market or Customs Union.

how many column inches told me what it was


I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave some moments ago.
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Re: Come 2022

Postby BakersDozen » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:38 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote: Nothing. The form of Brexit was not specified.


It was quite clear what Brexit was, leaving the single market and the customs union, take control of our borders and make our own laws.

Hubris got to the remain side and they thought they were going to win so failed to specify what Brexit meant, possibly because it would have strengthened the leave vote or they would have been caught out lying (dishonour)!

I said at the time if they were going to go through the charade of triggering Article 50 it will be a farce and we would not leave, if it was meant seriously then the 1972 EEC Act, Maastricht, Lisbon and any other nonsense would have been repealed at 8am on June 24 2016!
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Re: Come 2022

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:16 am

BakersDozen wrote:It was quite clear what Brexit was, leaving the single market and the customs union, take control of our borders and make our own laws.


Nonsense. In fact, the opposite is true.

Before the referendum, Daniel Hannan said "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market." Owen Patterson, then a Cabinet Minister, said "Only a madman would actually leave the Single Market." Boris Johnson was still saying we would retain access to the Single Market even after the referendum had taken place.

Hubris got to the remain side and they thought they were going to win so failed to specify what Brexit meant, possibly because it would have strengthened the leave vote or they would have been caught out lying (dishonour)!


No. In fact, the opposite is true. First, it was up to the Leave campaign to specify what Brexit meant, given that they were arguing that it should take place. The official campaign's position at the time was "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."

I said at the time if they were going to go through the charade of triggering Article 50 it will be a farce and we would not leave, if it was meant seriously then the 1972 EEC Act, Maastricht, Lisbon and any other nonsense would have been repealed at 8am on June 24 2016!


Well what a catastrophe that would have been.
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Re: Come 2022

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:29 pm

BakersDozen wrote:
Smouldering Stoat wrote: Nothing. The form of Brexit was not specified.


It was quite clear what Brexit was, leaving the single market and the customs union, take control of our borders and make our own laws.


No, it was quite clearly a vote for change, any change. The actual question on the ballot was largely irrelevant.
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Re: Come 2022

Postby BakersDozen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:04 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Before the referendum, Daniel Hannan said "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market." Owen Patterson, then a Cabinet Minister, said "Only a madman would actually leave the Single Market." Boris Johnson was still saying we would retain access to the Single Market even after the referendum had taken place.

No. In fact, the opposite is true. First, it was up to the Leave campaign to specify what Brexit meant, given that they were arguing that it should take place. The official campaign's position at the time was "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."


Please note you are quoting the official leave campaigns announcements.

I attended the grass roots meetings that Nigel Farage was a part of, the speeches I heard by Peter Bone, Kate Hoey and Chris Grayling were truly amazing and the atmosphere it created inside the audotorium with people standing on seats clapping and whistling was something special.

As for official leave, Ive always been suspicious of its true intentions and would it deliver the type of Brexit the Brexiteers wanted, so far my suspicions are being compounded and it will fail to deliver on purpose. Its going to take us round the block, punish us and there will be another referendum to take us back in making out it is better to be in.

However Lord Kilmuir's letter to Ted Heath still applies.
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Re: Come 2022

Postby BakersDozen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:07 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
BakersDozen wrote:
No, it was quite clearly a vote for change, any change. The actual question on the ballot was largely irrelevant.


That sort of echoes the 2010 general election where the people wanted the Pro EU PM Gordon Brown out, my feeling it was at this point the referendum wheels started gaining more traction!
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Re: Come 2022

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:02 am

BakersDozen wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
BakersDozen wrote:No, it was quite clearly a vote for change, any change. The actual question on the ballot was largely irrelevant.


That sort of echoes the 2010 general election where the people wanted the Pro EU PM Gordon Brown out...


No, they wanted out the idiot who had allowed the world economy to tank. And they wanted out the party that had lied to take us into an illegal war. That he was pro-EU was irrelevant to almost everybody.
Surveys at the election before last showed only around 10% of people put the EU high on their list of concerns.
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Re: Come 2022

Postby atticus » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:10 am

In 2010 the people voted in the pro EU PM David Cameron, supported by the pro EU Deputy PM Nick Clegg.
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