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EU citizens rights

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

EU citizens rights

Postby dls » Sat May 13, 2017 5:28 am

Everybody wants to ensure the futures of EU citizens here and UK citizens in Europe.

Labour and others (including me from time to time) have said we should simply guarantee the rights of EU citizens living here.

Unfortunately that turns out to be simplistic. When you say guarantee the rights - exactly what rights are to be guaranteed? For now, an EU citizen here has the right of recourse to the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, and to have that right enforced through the ECJ. I cannot imagine those rights being maintained by us, or not demanded by the EU.

So what is on offer by those calling for an immediate unilateral guarantee?
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby diy » Sat May 13, 2017 6:20 am

The right to stay where they are living, return "home" and come back again. I cannot see any logic for anyone to have more than the equiv of green card status (with similar restrictions).

Who is to say our laws and privileges outside the EU will not be better than inside? To get sucked into the EUiswonderful orgasmafest won't help come up with a better solution.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby shootist » Sat May 13, 2017 7:39 am

And if we do unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens what happens to UK citizens living in the EU when the EU says "You play ball with us and we'll ram the bat up your arse?"
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby atticus » Sat May 13, 2017 7:44 am

Health services. Other benefits. Pensions. Right to work. These are things which are provided for under EU arrangements.

My understanding is that more Brits live in other EU countries than citizens of other EU countries live in the UK.

The problem with all the grandstanding is that each side has made proposals with little catches attached. Brexiteers complain about the EU's terms, but overlook the catches in what the UK has proposed.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby shootist » Sat May 13, 2017 7:47 am

atticus wrote:The problem with all the grandstanding is that each side has made proposals with little catches attached. Brexiteers complain about the EU's terms, but overlook the catches in what the UK has proposed.


And vice versa. You do have a habit of forgetting vice versa when discussing Brexit.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby atticus » Sat May 13, 2017 7:52 am

Read my words that you have quoted. Please then tell me how much more balanced that could have been. You do have a habit of wearing blinkers when discussing your little hobby horses.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby Hairyloon » Sat May 13, 2017 9:48 am

dls wrote:For now, an EU citizen here has the right of recourse to the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, and to have that right enforced through the ECJ. I cannot imagine those rights being maintained by us, or not demanded by the EU.


Just to be clear: you cannot imagine the Fundamental Rights being maintained by us?! Do we have a different understanding of what fundamental means?
With May in charge, I can well believe it, but it is not beyond the imagination.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby miner » Sat May 13, 2017 2:22 pm

atticus wrote:
My understanding is that more Brits live in other EU countries than citizens of other EU countries live in the UK.


Wrong, wrong, wrong, according to the various figures I've seen. It's 3:1 the opposite way round!!!

3.3 million citizens of the other 27 EU countries are said to be living in the UK, whereas just 1.2 million Brits live in the EU.

Source: United Nations Estimates 2015.

There are more Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians and Lithuanians living in the UK than there are Brits living in the 27 EU Countries.
Last edited by miner on Sat May 13, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby miner » Sat May 13, 2017 2:27 pm

atticus wrote:The problem with all the grandstanding is that each side has made proposals with little catches attached. Brexiteers complain about the EU's terms, but overlook the catches in what the UK has proposed.


Which UK "catches" are you referring to, please?
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Re: EU citizens rights

Postby atticus » Sat May 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Thank you thank you thank you.
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