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Negotiating as Members

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu May 04, 2017 3:21 pm

I would have thought the concept would be reasonably self-explanatory, particularly since I contrasted it with N Empire. An association of member states that is entered into and may be left freely.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby atticus » Thu May 04, 2017 3:30 pm

What was discussed over dinner in Malta? Falconry?
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu May 04, 2017 3:31 pm

Whatever it was, miner's very cross about it.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby dls » Thu May 04, 2017 3:47 pm

SS
Client state? Seriously? We're members (for now) of a free association of member states, not a petty kingdom within the Babylonian Empire.


Well I have to say that it is not a 'free association of member states' - it is a Commission drawing a Union noose around such members. We are close and would have become inexorably closer to being exactly a petty kingdom within the Babylonian (or other) empire. It has been said that the states of the USA enjoy greater legislative freedom within the USA than do the member/client states within the EU. I am not sure how that might be measured but you would not describe a US state as reaching the status of a 'petty republic' within the USA.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby atticus » Thu May 04, 2017 3:57 pm

"it has been said."come on David, you can do better.

It would not surprise me if several states of the US would find independent existence extremely difficult.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu May 04, 2017 3:59 pm

It is not an Empire. It is not even nearly like an Empire. We entered into it of our own free will. We had the right to leave of our own free will, which we are now exercising. As members we were given considerable latitude in picking and choosing which parts of the project we participated in. We also exercised considerable influence over the future direction of the union. The Single Market was our idea.

In recent years the direction of travel has been away from the kind of one-size-fits-all approach which the EU once held, and far more towards flexibility.

None of this is remotely comparable with an Empire.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu May 04, 2017 4:01 pm

atticus wrote:"it has been said."come on David, you can do better.

It would not surprise me if several states of the US would find independent existence extremely difficult.


I seem to recall that the US experienced some difficulties when some atates tried to leave, too.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby shootist » Thu May 04, 2017 4:08 pm

atticus wrote:What was discussed over dinner in Malta? Falconry?


Too deep. Far too deep. Call a Spade as Spade for once.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby shootist » Thu May 04, 2017 4:11 pm

dls wrote:It has been said that the states of the USA enjoy greater legislative freedom within the USA than do the member/client states within the EU.


One of the most interesting remarks I have heard on the whole mess. Some of the states at least have effectively overruled the Prez, to his intense annoyance. It makes sense. The EU has ever more sought to centralise power and authority. States in the US guard their own authority jealously. One example that comes to mind is the death penalty, which might be considered a serious matter by some. Different states make up their own laws on it and are merely overseen with respect to Federal law about cruel and unusual punishment, which is a bloody stupid idea if you look into the subject.
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Re: Negotiating as Members

Postby dls » Thu May 04, 2017 4:26 pm

In recent years the direction of travel has been away from the kind of one-size-fits-all approach which the EU once held, and far more towards flexibility.


Sorry, but that is not anything I recognise about the EU. Cameron was very firmly given the one size fits all dress down when he sought to negotiate an arrangement with which we might better have lived.

The Market may have been our idea - and a good one. Very few would have wanted us to leave the Market in the form in which it was negotiated, but it has become (at the feet of John Major) very much more - a stepping stone on the inexorable way to a Union - a central authority with client petty states. What else is a Union?
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