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Et avec ceci?

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Et avec ceci?

Postby atticus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:31 pm

Have you seen the French film, L'Homme du Train? Johnny Halliday is the mysterious stranger who steps off a train in a new town. He befriends a local man, who has a dull life of unchanging routine. Part of that routine is his daily visit to the boulangerie, where he always buys one baguette, and nothing else. The lady behind the counter always asks "et avec ceci?" (anything else?).

The more ardent Brexiteers (those who have declared a desire to have their cake and to eat it) give the impression that they can go into the patisserie of the Brexit negotiation chamber, and that after they have ordered their gâteau, they will be asked "et avec ceci?"

I am of the view that the EU negotiators will have regard to EU interests when they negotiate. Any cake will come at a price. This does appear anathema to the Faragistes, but there it is, that is what I think.

Well, the guessing can come to an end. The Council of Europe has met. It has agreed its negotiating guidelines. I have yet to read them fully, but here they are:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meeti ... lines_pdf/
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby miner » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:59 pm

Para (5):

While an agreement on a future relationship between the Union and the United Kingdom as such can only be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom has become a third country,


So those deluded clowns in Brussels have now decided that the EU is a "country", which it is not and never has been.

They make bigger fools of themselves every day! What's more, they can't even count to 2, ffs.

I noted this with great interest:

Following the notification under Article 50 TEU, the member of the European Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or in decisions concerning it.


Until it leaves the Union, the United Kingdom remains a full Member of the European Union,


But, the UK is clearly not being treated as such.

And, if the UK is not being treated as a current full member of the EU (which has already been going on for some time, with TM excluded from certain meetings and EU get-togethers) then the UK should with immediate effect cease contributing to the EUrocircus.
Last edited by miner on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby diy » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:04 pm

If you read it it is very open to interpretation. For example point 10. could mean a pay day for either the UK or the EU.
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby atticus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:31 pm

Surely that paragraph states that there will be a need to agree the respective contributions in respect of existing commitments.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby miner » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:37 pm

That document is good for a laugh and not much else. It has been amateurishly prepared, and re-emphasises just how utterly inept, incompetent and useless the EU actually is at anything and everything it is involved in.

I say let's get out pronto and not bother wasting too much time negotiating with these idiots, as negotiation is clearly not what they intend to participate in.

European integration has brought peace and prosperity to Europe and allowed for an unprecedented level and scope of cooperation on matters of common interest in a rapidly changing world. Therefore, the Union's overall objective in these negotiations will be to preserve its interests, those of its citizens, its businesses and its Member States.


And precisely what "Businesses" does the EU actually operate?
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby atticus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:58 pm

Clearly the reference is to the businesses in the Member States.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby miner » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:45 pm

.... Which are businesses operated in and by the member countries, not "its" businesses.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby dls » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:54 pm

The more ardent Brexiteers (those who have declared a desire to have their cake and to eat it) give the impression that they can go into the patisserie of the Brexit negotiation chamber, and that after they have ordered their gâteau, they will be asked "et avec ceci?


Sorry, but I think the ones best described as wanting to have their cake and eat it, are the ones who dream of leaving the EU whilst retaining some peculiarly advantageous relationship preserving market and other rights. The true brexiteers say 'stuff 'em' wanting nothing from the EU.

Neither position seems adequate to me, but to suggest that only Brexiteers are dreaming is disingenuous.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby atticus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:12 pm

Boris has notoriously said he wants both to have the cake and to eat it.
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Re: Et avec ceci?

Postby shootist » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:17 pm

dls wrote:Sorry, but I think the ones best described as wanting to have their cake and eat it, are the ones who dream of leaving the EU whilst retaining some peculiarly advantageous relationship preserving market and other rights. The true brexiteers say 'stuff 'em' wanting nothing from the EU.

Neither position seems adequate to me, but to suggest that only Brexiteers are dreaming is disingenuous.


I think that you may find there is a middle ground. By this I mean Brexiteers who want no concessions to the EU but are willing to accept trade negotiations if they are worthwhile, much as they would also accept trade negotiations with any other country. It's called 'doing business'. As the two sides divide it seems that the panic mongers, i.e. the remainders, are increasingly taking the position that it's either Europe or the rest of the world with which we will deal, and never the both, which is a bloody idiotic mindset. If we have something worth offering to Europe then Europe will trade, as will the rest of the world.
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