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Labour's position

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: Labour's position

Postby diy » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:27 pm

I have to say - I really don't get Labour's brexit stance. They are painting a picture to me atleast that they would give it all away for nothing back.

Are they somehow shooting for the migrant vote, in their promise to protect the status of EU citizens. I guess there could be a 1m votes in it for them.
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Re: Labour's position

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:31 pm

They appear to be fishing for the potential to remain
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Re: Labour's position

Postby miner » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:31 pm

They appear to me to be on a fishing expedition to nowhere on a rudderless, sinking ship.
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Re: Labour's position

Postby shootist » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:31 pm

Hairyloon wrote:They appear to be fishing for the potential to remain


And having given rights of residency to EU citizens already here (and yet to arrive?) what would they do if (when?) the EU tells UK citizens to bugger off back home?
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Re: Labour's position

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:07 pm

shootist wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:They appear to be fishing for the potential to remain


And having given rights of residency to EU citizens already here (and yet to arrive?) what would they do if (when?) the EU tells UK citizens to bugger off back home?


I'm waiting for somebody to explain how such a directive would be consistent with the ECHR.
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Re: Labour's position

Postby dls » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:15 am

And having given rights of residency to EU citizens already here (and yet to arrive?) what would they do if (when?) the EU tells UK citizens to bugger off back home?

I can see the argument, but do not accept it. There is I think a clear moral duty to the people we have here. We should do what we now can to satisfy that duty.

That said, the question is a lot more complex. The EU have suggested that any EU nationals remaining here should remain subject to regulation and protection of the European Court of Justice. Sorry, No.
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Re: Labour's position

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:23 am

dls wrote:The EU have suggested that any EU nationals remaining here should remain subject to regulation and protection of the European Court of Justice. Sorry, No.

Under what circumstances does the ECJ get involved with citizens?
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Re: Labour's position

Postby dls » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:43 am

I have seen it argued that a French worker here should retain his employment rights as now supported by EU legislation, together with a right to protect those rights bt reference if necessary to the ECJ.
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Re: Labour's position

Postby LoveandPeace » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:14 pm

The Labour Manifesto 1983

Britain and the Common Market

Geography and history determine that Britain is part of Europe, and Labour wants to see Europe safe and prosperous. But the European Economic Community, which does not even include the whole of Western Europe, was never devised to suit us, and our experience as a member of it has made it more difficult for us to deal with our economic and industrial problems. It has sometimes weakened our ability to achieve the objectives of Labour's international policy.

The next Labour government, committed to radical, socialist policies for reviving the British economy, is bound to find continued membership a most serious obstacle to the fulfilment of those policies. In particular the rules of the Treaty of Rome are bound to conflict with our strategy for economic growth and full employment, our proposals on industrial policy and for increasing trade, and our need to restore exchange controls and to regulate direct overseas investment. Moreover, by preventing us from buying food from the best sources of world supply, they would run counter to our plans to control prices and inflation.

For all these reasons, British withdrawal from the Community is the right policy for Britain - to be completed well within the lifetime of the parliament. That is our commitment. But we are also committed to bring about withdrawal in an amicable and orderly way, so that we do not prejudice employment or the prospect of increased political and economic co-operation with the whole of Europe.

We emphasise that our decision to bring about withdrawal in no sense represents any weakening of our commitment to internationalism and international co operation. We are not 'withdrawing from Europe'. We are seeking to extricate ourselves from the Treaty of Rome and other Community treaties which place political burdens on Britain. Indeed, we believe our withdrawal will allow us to pursue a more dynamic and positive international policy - one which recognises the true political and geographical spread of international problems and interests. We will also seek agreement with other European governments - both in the EEC and outside - on a common strategy for economic expansion.

The process of withdrawal

On taking office we will open preliminary negotiations with the other EEC member states to establish a timetable for withdrawal; and we will publish the results of these negotiations in a White Paper. In addition, as soon as possible after the House assembles, we will introduce a Repeal Bill: first, in order to amend the 1972 European Communities Act, ending the powers of the Community in the UK; and second, to provide the necessary powers to repeal the 1972 Act, when the negotiations on withdrawal are completed.

Following the publication of the White Paper, we will begin the main negotiations on withdrawal. Later, when appropriate and in the same parliament, we will use our powers to repeal the 1972 Act and abrogate the Treaty of Accession - thus breaking all of our formal links with the Community. Britain will at this point withdraw from the Council of Ministers and from the European Parliament.

There will need to be a period of transition, to ensure a minimum of disruption - and to phase in any new agreements we might make with the Community. This will enable us to make all the necessary changes in our domestic legislation. Until these changes in UK law have taken place, the status quo as regards particular items of EEC legislation will remain. And this period will, of course, extend beyond the date when we cease, formally, to be members.


Oh how times change ...

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab83.htm (Britain and the Common Market)
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Re: Labour's position

Postby LoveandPeace » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:24 pm

dls wrote:
And having given rights of residency to EU citizens already here (and yet to arrive?) what would they do if (when?) the EU tells UK citizens to bugger off back home?

I can see the argument, but do not accept it. There is I think a clear moral duty to the people we have here. We should do what we now can to satisfy that duty.

That said, the question is a lot more complex. The EU have suggested that any EU nationals remaining here should remain subject to regulation and protection of the European Court of Justice. Sorry, No.


What would happen if we didn't uphold their rights just as an example. What would then happen to people who have bought property here? Would they have any right to haul our Gov through the courts? What is the legal situation there. I'm curious.

I'm all for upholding rights as long as they are met equally from the other European Country and that now brings onto my other question. Could our Gov agree to sepearate rights on a country by country basis than just the EU as a whole. If Spain were prepared to match the rights given (or there abouts) but Germany (this is just an example) were giving us nothing, would we then be able to negotiate seperately with these countries?
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