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Labour's position

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:35 pm
by dls
I know I must have this wrong, but I need help understanding.

TM says 'No deal may be better than a bad deal'. There are worse possibilities than simply leaving the EU on standard international trading terms.

Labour says 'Wrong. You must be an extreme brexiteer' - All deals must be better that standard terms. (illogical, but it might just be excused if you still believe in the essential good character of the EU) That is any possible offer from the EU must always be better than no deal.

However, they say that they will wait for the deal, and if it is nnot good theywill vote againat it - suggesting an apparent preference for standard terms over some possible EU offers.

Am I alone in seeing a straight self contradiction?

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:44 pm
by Hairyloon
I can only assume that there position is one of being run by idiots. The hypothesis appears to fit the available evidence.

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:14 pm
by miner
Hairyloon wrote:I can only assume that there position is one of being run by idiots. The hypothesis appears to fit the available evidence.




That there position is, indeed, being run by idiots. :) (Sorry!)

Nothing new there, then!

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:22 pm
by miner
dls wrote:I know I must have this wrong, but I need help understanding.

TM says 'No deal may be better than a bad deal'. There are worse possibilities than simply leaving the EU on standard international trading terms.

Labour says 'Wrong. You must be an extreme brexiteer' - All deals must be better that standard terms. (illogical, but it might just be excused if you still believe in the essential good character of the EU) That is any possible offer from the EU must always be better than no deal.

However, they say that they will wait for the deal, and if it is nnot good theywill vote againat it - suggesting an apparent preference for standard terms over some possible EU offers.

Am I alone in seeing a straight self contradiction?


Yes, having re-read what you have said above, my conclusion from Labour's statements is that you are correct. They have, indeed, contradicted themselves. Corbyn's loony lot don't know what they Trot out from one day to the next.

".... essential good character of the EU..."? Pardon?

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:12 am
by shootist
It is the nature of the Opposition to oppose. So what else can they say? They could not possibly agree with the Conservatives and so the present for their weak minded hard of thinking followers the proposition that the deal has to be better or they'll vote against it. No mention of 'What then?' because that's too difficult.

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:47 am
by dls
No mention of 'What then?' because that's too difficult.


I suppose that they would anticipate that they could in fact demonstrate that a deal negotiated to get back into the EU would in fcat be worse than a no-deal exit.

I get lost in this.

Yes it is the job of the opposition to oppose, but they seem here to be opposing themselves.

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:51 am
by Hairyloon
shootist wrote:They could not possibly agree with the Conservatives and so the present for their weak minded hard of thinking followers the proposition that the deal has to be better or they'll vote against it...

What about the rest of the followers? Some follow despite the incompetence because Labour are probably still the best chance for any significant change.

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:20 pm
by miner
dls wrote:.... Yes it is the job of the opposition to oppose, but they seem here to be opposing themselves.


Yes, but their problem is that they are so stupid that they cannot see it!

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:22 pm
by miner
Hairyloon wrote:
shootist wrote:They could not possibly agree with the Conservatives and so the present for their weak minded hard of thinking followers the proposition that the deal has to be better or they'll vote against it...

What about the rest of the followers? Some follow despite the incompetence because Labour are probably still the best chance for any significant change.


Change which would take the UK back into the '50s!

Re: Labour's position

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:42 pm
by diy
If you want to stop the conservatives from potentially ruling for the next 10 years, then you have to paint a picture that her aims are to be some sort of evil dictator/president and that she is after some sort of extreme brexit. Personally I think she is looking for the best hand to negotiate the best deal and take her at her word that she was a reluctant remainer. However with the rhetoric coming from the EU about having an annual adjustment to the brexit bill, there is a strong argument for saving our bother and going hard. At least positioning that as our strategy.

We are in week 1 of the campaign, it does TM no harm to allow JC a bit of air time to set out his stance.

For him to be seen as the alternative to the established political elite like trump is a joke.. He's a life long politician ~35 years an MP a good 10 years longer than TM