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£50bn exit fee

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:06 pm

What our obligations are is a matter for negotiation. Article 50 does indeed say that we cease to be bound by our treaty obligations - but it also refers to an agreement about the terms. Our EU partners entered into reciprocal obligations with us in good faith.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby miner » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:44 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:
miner wrote:The important thing now is to all pull forward, constructively and cohesively.


miner also wrote:weak, dishonest and useless creatures.

miner also wrote:You are dreaming again, wrapped up in your own delusions.

miner also wrote:The reality is that you, Stoaty, have no clue

miner also wrote:resident Remoaners

miner also wrote:skunks

miner also wrote:You have tunnel vision.

miner also wrote:You, Stoaty, are the one spouting the meaningless generalities.

miner also wrote:Get real, Stoaty.

miner also wrote:There is nothing to compete with the deranged fantasies of the hierarchy of the EUssr.

miner also wrote:arse-polisher brigade

miner also wrote:Bollocks.

miner also wrote:More bollocks from you.

miner also wrote:Edward Heath who should have been strung up for treason.


Go on, pull forward constructively and cohesively. You Brexit, you fix it.


It's a poor reflection on you that you have nothing better to do with your time than post a pointless list of the above, which are without any context, anyway.

My statements do not impact negatively at all on my view that we must now proceed constructively and cohesively. That includes you, despite your ongoing love-affair with the destructive and democratically-deficient EUssr.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby diy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:19 am

Article 50, is a contractual break clause. There is nothing to suggest liabilities should be attended to, there is also nothing to suggest that assets are divided up.
- You are in a club, you serve notice to quit.
- If there is an obligation to pay and exit fee to be negotiated based on future financial commitments then it should be in the terms.
- if there isn't, then the EU should make contingencies like any corporate would not to invest or commit beyond its guaranteed income.

If a start up has 2 years worth of funding you wont find it securing a 10 year lease and then knocking on the door of its funders when they pull the plug saying, you need to pay my rent for 8 years.


To use the house analogy - we paid a share of the land, the architect the builder the bricks and are paying gas and 'lecy for the next 2 years.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:23 am

It is not a contractual break clause. We are not in a club. We are not funding a startup. We are not selling a house.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby dls » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:49 am

It is not a contractual break clause. We are not in a club. We are not funding a startup. We are not selling a house.


I agree, but equally, an unsupported unexplained and simplistic analogy does not get you very far.

In my view those elements which apply solely as part of EU membership die with the membership and without repercussion. At one moment we are bound to pay something as part of our EU membership. The two fall together.
There may however be many possible particular promises which might have been given over an above or outside membership. There may be some project where we gave a particular promise over and above our duty as a member. Any such must be examined in its terms. I know of none such, but that is not a surprise.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby diy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:11 am

Such promises sound like they should survive post brexit along with our ongoing engagement and any share of associated benefits
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby atticus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:16 am

That is exactly the point.

What the commitments in question are, and the amount and terms of the appropriate contribution, are to be negotiated.

Do you remember when I asked who pays the mortgage after Theresa decides she wants a divorce from Jean-Claude? That is a sort of analogy.
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby diy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:56 pm

We are only partly on the same page.

The current stance seems to be we must pay the mortgage while they keep the house.

This seems to be a divorce where the household is highly geared.


The mentality seems to be that we are leaving the EU to hurt them and they are going to demand to be made whole for the damage.

In other words when you get divorced - plans for early retirement go out of the window. i'm not convinced both parties accept that
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby miner » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:15 pm

Actually, I have seen some interesting comments in the past few days about the EU's so-called "negotiating skills".

THey were along the lines that the EU has few if any negotiating skills or real negotiating experience because it has become used to simply abusing its political clout and bludgeoning others in order to to get its own way, without engaging in any meaningful "negotiating" per se.

Personally, I believe that is very true, given what we have seen of the EU attitude in David Cameron's attempts to gain some concessions and, more particularly since the emergence of the £50 bn settlement the EUrocretins are seeking from the UK.

As for the EU having "Skilled Senior Negotiators" the reality is that they have no experience of negotiating as most reasonable people would understand the word, and have no experienced or skilled negotiators per se. The EU is simply not used to "negotiating"!
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Re: £50bn exit fee

Postby dls » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:45 pm

who pays the mortgage after Theresa decides she wants a divorce from Jean-Claude?


In principle a court would order a sale of the house and distribution of the proceeds
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