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what will Brexit do for us?

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby diy » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:11 am

Predicting the future is very difficult. You can only say could or might rather than will. Remain we're wrong to say the EU could be reformed to better suit our desires, they were wrong to say the future is known if we stay. Leave painted a similarly unreliable version of the future based on cake and eat it.

The only real question is voters could answer, is are we heading in the right direction or do we need to change tack. The grass will always appear greener elsewhere.

A better proposition would have been: are we loosing opportunity by being part of the club vs the opportunity lost if we leave. We didn't know (and still don't) know the gains and losses of either option. We'll have a better idea in 5 years time.

I wanted less EU not more EU. but i didn't and still don't want no EU
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:19 am

diy wrote:Remain we're wrong to say the EU could be reformed to better suit our desires...

They could be wrong, the fact that Cameron failed to accomplish anything is neither here nor there: he is incompetent and did not actually try.

The only real question is voters could answer, is are we heading in the right direction or do we need to change tack.

Or "do you want change or to keep things the same", which is how a good many people took the question.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby dls » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:20 pm

I wanted less EU not more EU. but i didn't and still don't want no EU


It is all John Major's fault. He signed us up to move from the EC to the EU.

Of all the puzzles in this, it is clearest that had he refused, we would have had some form of continuing economic membership without the move to a union.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby atticus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:44 pm

And Cameron for playing fast and loose with the future of the country just to sort out a Tory party internal cat fight.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby dls » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:40 pm

If Major had done his job properly there would have been no cat fight.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby atticus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Yes, he should have hung the "bastards" (his word) out to dry.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby miner » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:35 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
They seek to build a giant edifice upon foundations of sand: any responsible engineer would give it a wobble to test its stability before it gets too high.


The foundations of the European Economic Community were built on solid foundations, and it was a worthwhile entity. When the headbanger politicians of the day - steeped in their own ignorance and stupidity and their political delusions - decided that they could somehow create a United States of Europe - something which was doomed to failure from the birth of the very notion of such an absurd concept - it turned into a thoroughly predictable disaster. Anyone with more than half a brain could see that it would.

The foundations of the EU itself were built on foundations of sand - quicksand, even - a fact which you somehow cannot understand. It is no surprise, therefore, that the EU and the EU Project has failed - as any such fundamentally flawed structural design would have done.

The edifice now being built under the control of the United Kingdom will be successful and will stand the test of time. Irrespective of how any individuals voted in the 2016 Referendum, we should all be supporting that new and very worthwhile goal instead of living in the past and harping on about the past.

We cannot change the past - we need to learn from it and move on.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby miner » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:37 pm

dls wrote:I do not think that that is what is being said. What is being said is that something has to be built. That requires at least the semblance of positive intent to make what we can of where we are going. There will be much proper debate as to just how this will work, and people can disagree, but much of the disagreement seems to be from people determined to undermine the whole process.


Spot on, dls.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby miner » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:43 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
diy wrote:Remain we're wrong to say the EU could be reformed to better suit our desires...

They could be wrong, the fact that Cameron failed to accomplish anything is neither here nor there: he is incompetent and did not actually try.


Whatever your views on Cameron and what he did or didn't do are they are now, they are now relegated to the annals of history.

Or "do you want change or to keep things the same", which is how a good many people took the question.


Nonsense. The question as stated on the Referendum ballot paper could not have been more clearly expressed, even for this voters of the meanest comprehension.

You are dreaming again, wrapped up in your own delusions.
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Re: what will Brexit do for us?

Postby miner » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:55 pm

diy wrote:

.......... I wanted less EU not more EU. but i didn't and still don't want no EU


Frankly, I do not care whether the EU exists or not, as long as the United Kingdom is not a part of it in any shape, form or description.

The only thing such a discredited and failed entity as the EU is fit for now is disbandment - the scrap heap. There comes a point when a failed edifice is beyond reasonable repair and has to be demolished, and the EU is already well beyond that.

Maybe some form of revised and updated "Common Market" might usefully emerge in the course of time - which should not be exclusively European - but it has to be structured from ground-root first principles, not be a some rehash of anything which currently exists.
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