Discussing UK law. Links: swarb.co.uk | law-index | Acts | Members Image galleries

MPs and the Referendum

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

MPs and the Referendum

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:36 pm

I doubt if anyone would deny that had there been no Referendum and the vote had been left for our so-called "Elected Representatives" to make, we would not now have Brexit.

The indications are that MPs would most likely have voted by a massive majority to remain in the EU.

The actual vote demonstrated very clearly just how seriously out of touch our "Elected Representatives" are from those whom they are supposed to represent and presumed to be representing as a key element of our Democracy.

I have been wondering how and why that is?

Basically, the Treaty of Maastricht and the preamble to it enabled the Brussels hierarchy to transform the "Common Market / European Economic Community / EEC" into the "European Community / EC" and thence by stealth into the European Union / EU at which point it became an uncontrolled (and utterly out of control) political entity rather than the well-conceived and quite effective free-trade entity for which express purpose the EEC was originally formed in 1957. As more and more national powers for the establishment of laws and rules were quietly but stealthily subsumed into the EU political machine, and automatically adopted by the mostly complacent and compliant member countries, the UK's and other MPs had substantially less work to do.

In fact, what should have happened after Maastricht was that the number of House of Commons MPs should logically have been substantially reduced because of that. After all, we by then had EURO MPs whom we were paying and expensing very generously to undertake many of those tasks previously undertaken by national parliaments.

So MPs generally became more complacent and lazy (Of course. they'd never admit that.....), revelling in drawing the same and increasing salaries and expenses for doing far less (useful) work and having even less accountability. Of course, they had the new benefit of increasing travel and increased time to travel on bogus "fact-finding Missions, and attending pointless conferences and foreign meetings, and they loved being able to do that at the expense of the Taxpayers.

Now, when Brexit happens 2 years from now, our "Elected Representatives" are going to have a lot more work to do, and also be forced to become more accountable, instead of being able to blame everything on decisions of the EU over which they claimed to have no control while they swanned around enjoying themselves.

I believe that that in itself may force these mostly out-of-touch Representatives of ours to get back into touch with the people they are supposed to represent rather than enjoying their relatively easy lives on fat salaries and expenses without any real or meaningful accountability.

THAT would surely also be much healthier and better for the United Kingdom and would be more positive for its future.

Anyone disagree fundamentally with me?
miner
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:22 am

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby dls » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:14 am

I would question as a non sequitur that MPs having different views from the majority of their electors necessarily shows that they are out of touch.

The hope we have is that our MPs are on the whole more intelligent and better educated and informed than their electors, and in electing them we ask them not to copy the views of the electors, but to exercise their best judgment.
David Swarbrick (Admin) dswarb@gmail.com - 0795 457 9992
User avatar
dls
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11642
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby atticus » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:28 am

Interesting article by Andrew Rawnsley in the Grauniad on our spineless MPs and opposition, and the continued campaign of the Hard Brexiteers* https://t.co/ZhS7562tkj

* comparable methods, IMO, to the trotskyite left.
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 18323
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby shootist » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:59 pm

dls wrote:I would question as a non sequitur that MPs having different views from the majority of their electors necessarily shows that they are out of touch.

The hope we have is that our MPs are on the whole more intelligent and better educated and informed than their electors, and in electing them we ask them not to copy the views of the electors, but to exercise their best judgment.


With acknowledgement to Mr Godwin, that concept didn't seem to work too well in Germany a while back.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3084
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby atticus » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Do you think the UK is heading that way?
User avatar
atticus
 
Posts: 18323
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: E&W

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby shootist » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:43 pm

atticus wrote:Do you think the UK is heading that way?


My first instinct was to say no, but I have long believed that the UK is heading towards becoming a police state, in a very British way to be sure, but going that way for sure. I think that the only protection from such a fate is the traditional British stroppiness towards authority. Such would produce a far from perfect government, but then the only perfect governments are found in those countries ruled by fanatics.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3084
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:33 pm

shootist wrote: I think that the only protection from such a fate is the traditional British stroppiness towards authority.


The sort of stroppiness that gets you tasered in the face these days.
Smouldering Stoat
 
Posts: 6002
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:31 pm
Location: Near the Creek.

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby tph » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:53 pm

dls wrote:The hope we have is that our MPs are on the whole more intelligent and better educated and informed than their electors, and in electing them we ask them not to copy the views of the electors, but to exercise their best judgment.


If you consider the system of election in this country there is no requirement for a candidate to be any more intelligent than the average person. Education is a bit of mute point. Ignoring people because they weren't educated meant that the world almost missed out on the contribution Einstein made.
User avatar
tph
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:54 pm

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby shootist » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:51 pm

tph wrote:
dls wrote:The hope we have is that our MPs are on the whole more intelligent and better educated and informed than their electors, and in electing them we ask them not to copy the views of the electors, but to exercise their best judgment.


If you consider the system of election in this country there is no requirement for a candidate to be any more intelligent than the average person. Education is a bit of mute point. Ignoring people because they weren't educated meant that the world almost missed out on the contribution Einstein made.


Moot point. It's 'moot'. Unless you're talking about a point that should be kept quiet.

Pedantry aside, your point is well made (and thus not mute). By way of example, Tony Benn was very well, and no doubt privately, educated, and undeniably intelligent. But, oy, what a barmpot.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
User avatar
shootist
 
Posts: 3084
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: MPs and the Referendum

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:41 am

tph wrote:If you consider the system of election in this country there is no requirement for a candidate to be any more intelligent than the average person...

No requirement, but one might expect the candidate selection mechanisms to favour the more intelligent.
Take me to your lizard...
User avatar
Hairyloon
 
Posts: 9161
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:12 pm
Location: From there to here and here to there... Funny things are everywhere.

Next

Return to Brexit

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests