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The exit

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: The exit

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
atticus wrote:minger wants the EU to disintegrate

The probability of that happening is enough that it ought not be dismissed, and having recognised that probability, is it right to ignore it or add to it?


Best to add to it, instead of prolonging it to the detriment of all its Members. The EURO is in ever-deeper trouble, and there will be more Member exits before long. When the EURO was being introduced I said it was a crassly stupid idea and that "one size to fit all" could not possibly work, and time has proved me right.

Most of the more recent additions to its Members should never have been accepted for membership anyway, as they failed to meet the EU's own defined criteria for membership.

The EU and its policies bear prime responsibility for Lithuania, for example, losing about 25 - 30% of its citizens and degenerating into a country with a predominantly aged population with no future and few prospects of employment for its youth. Its housing market is consequently dead, having been ruined by the EU.

The situation is no better in Latvia and Estonia. If the EU publicity (= bullshit) machine was to be believed, those 3 ex-Soviet Baltic countries should have prospered under their EU membership, instead of which they are in a far worse state.

Frankly, every aspect of the EU I look at realistically (without being influenced by the dishonest, utopian garbage produced by the EUrobullshit machine) represents mismanagement and incompetence on a grandiose - almost unbelievable - scale and the EU only exists to benefit and for the enrichment of a handful of its own useless integrationist hierarchy.

There is not a cat in hell's chance of the EU ever fulfilling a rôle which benefits all or any of its members in the long term, hence the need for its démise asap.
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Re: The exit

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:29 pm

shootist wrote: I personally think the EU buggered up a perfectly good and worthy Common Market by trying to turn it into a United States of Europe.


And so do I.

And THAT, I believe, is the sort of arrangement we'll all be heading back to before long - a "Common Market" which will transcend the borders of Europe and include Australia, New Zealand, the USA and Canada and several other worthy countries, but will have no political status per se.
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Re: The exit

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:22 pm

miner wrote:
atticus wrote:minger wants the EU to disintegrate


It's self-destructing anyway. The sooner it disintegrates the better for all the member countries.

It is rarely best to leave things to fall into chaos. The better answer is to recognise the impending disintegration and manage it as effectively as possible.

We have a widespread agreement that it worked as a common market and widespread agreement that it isn't working as a United States of Europe.
The better answer is to change the EU back to something that works better for everybody.
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Re: The exit

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
miner wrote:
atticus wrote:minger wants the EU to disintegrate


It's self-destructing anyway. The sooner it disintegrates the better for all the member countries.

It is rarely best to leave things to fall into chaos. The better answer is to recognise the impending disintegration and manage it as effectively as possible.

We have a widespread agreement that it worked as a common market and widespread agreement that it isn't working as a United States of Europe.
The better answer is to change the EU back to something that works better for everybody.


No, not at all. You don't seem to understand that repair and refurbishment are not viable once a certain level of degeneration has occurred. It's analogous to a derelict building or a clapped-out car. Look at another analogy: low-cost airlines. The ones which have succeeded are exclusively those which were not created by large national airlines, such as BA, KLM, Lufthansa etc. Why did they all fail? Because their internal and financial culture was that of a major, subsidized, corporate national carrier and could not be altered and was incompatible with the needs of a low-cost carrier. The same applies to the EU, which consists of a stubborn, centralization-inspired, pampered, champagne socialist thinking which will never be altered. It is a failed business model which was doomed to failure via the stupidity of the thinking which developed within it when it decided to become a political entity - a grandiose "United States of Europe".

You seem to be myopic and oblivious to the fact that the EU is a POLITICAL entity which as such will never metamorphose back into a non-political trading-only bloc as the now-established internal culture for such a reversion simply does not exist. There are too many vested career interests involved in pursuing more yet political centralization and ever-deeper integration and too many brainless wonders within, whose viewpoint is that if something isn't working then it can ONLY be because the system needs more integration and more centralization. These creatures are conveniently blind to the realities before their eyes.

We tried to change the EU and the EU was not prepared to even accede to those relatively small changes.

Despite all the evidence before you, Hairy, you continue to live in your own Utopian dream world where change can somehow be brought about to improve the EU. It can't, because the attitude and views of the EU's hierarchy are so deeply entrenched that they are hell-bent simply on "more of the same". They are so stupid they simply don't know they don't know any better.

Disbandment / break-up of the EU is the only solution under the circumstances which prevail, as repair is no longer a possibility. Nature now seems to be taking care of that anyway.
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Re: The exit

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:11 pm

One is myopic; the other blinkered. What's the difference?
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Re: The exit

Postby miner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:15 pm

atticus wrote:One is myopic; the other blinkered. What's the difference?


You're obviously talking about your own eyes! ;)
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Re: The exit

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:31 pm

the blinkered one wrote:You're obviously talking about your own eyes! ;)
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Re: The exit

Postby shootist » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Hairyloon wrote:It is rarely best to leave things to fall into chaos. The better answer is to recognise the impending disintegration and manage it as effectively as possible.

We have a widespread agreement that it worked as a common market and widespread agreement that it isn't working as a United States of Europe.
The better answer is to change the EU back to something that works better for everybody.


Leaving the EU in it's current form might well be descried (IMO) as falling out of chaos.
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Re: The exit

Postby atticus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:50 pm

and into ... ?
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Re: The exit

Postby diy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:09 pm

Hairyloon wrote:
The better answer is to change the EU back to something that works better for everybody.


I'd have voted for that. but don't remember it on the form
My suggestions are not legal advice
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