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An MP's duty...

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: An MP's duty...

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:08 pm

dls wrote:
The professor's vote is quite likely also selfish,


It is also very strange. There is in the end only one pot of money. He only gets support from Europe because we (and a few others) pay in more in general than we get out.

A somewhat over-simplistic view I suspect, and it is not all just about money: there are a great many joint European Scientific collaborations that will be at risk if we leave the EU... though of course that might just be scaremongering by the experts...

But this is digressing from the point we can agree that both of these people's reasons for voting were equally valid on a personal level, if not on a national one, but what about the banana lady, who almost certainly represents a good many people.
Can anybody make the case that her reasons for voting to leave were as valid as the Professor's vote to remain?
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby dls » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:50 pm

there are a great many joint European Scientific collaborations that will be at risk if we leave the EU... though of course that might just be scaremongering by the experts...


Any substantial change puts all sorts of things at risk. The point is that there is no general reason not to continue with such arrangements from our point of view. There is no reason yet to anticipate anything more than the need to include such considerations in forthcoming conversations. They would be at threat only if the EU (or our own idiots) wants to make a spiteful political point.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:55 pm

dls wrote:They would be at threat only if the EU (or our own idiots) wants to make a spiteful political point.

The trouble with conditional statements is that sometimes they are conditional on a near certainty.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby dls » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:23 pm

All change involves risks. No state or condition is not subject to change.

The EU Commission, Council and Parliaments all well versed in making mistakes. Our own Parliament is similarly capable of error. The only difference is that our lot are better answerable to us for our interests.

There is an unspoken assumption by many who support Europe. It is that somehow the EU is inherently more liberal than our own government. An example is the rather asinine suggestion that we have Europe to thank for our employment protection rights (made by certain trades union leaders). I am glad we have the rights we have. In fact many originate from Europe, but there is no possible evidence that more or less similar rights would not have been granted if we had been outside the EU.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby miner » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:17 pm

dls wrote:.... but there is no possible evidence that more or less similar rights would not have been granted if we had been outside the EU.


Once again dls, you hit the nail right on the head.

The EU (as opposed to the Common Market / EEC) has done far more damage to nations - including Germany - than it has ever done good.

As i have stated on more than one occasion, many if not most of the positive things would have transpired anyway with or without the EU. European countries don't stand still, developmentally, but it seems that EU bureaucracy and incompetence has diminished and limited the development of many countries. Massive youth unemployment in southern Europe - created largely if not entirely by EU policies - has augmented that developmental problem.

Furthermore, much of what the EU does seems to be without any real purpose, other than as a "work creation scheme" for the EU staffers in order to seek to justify their pampered and overpaid and continued existence.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby atticus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:41 pm

You have indeed said such things on many more than one occasion. You will agree that you are not one of Lewis Carroll's characters.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby miner » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:00 pm

How do you KNOW what I will agree and what I will not agree, Pratticus?
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby atticus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:09 pm

A most charming and gracious reply.

Are you the Bellman?
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:20 pm

miner wrote:How do you KNOW what I will agree and what I will not agree, Pratticus?

He can make an educated guess: you are fairly predictable.
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Re: An MP's duty...

Postby atticus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Or miner might disagree, and insist that he is one of Lewis Carroll's characters. If not the Bellman, perhaps the Mad Hatter.
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