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Excellent News on Brexit

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Excellent News on Brexit

Postby miner » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:43 pm

The UK's ambassador to the EU Sir Ivan Rogers has resigned (or more likely been pushed).

We need someone in that role who has not lived off and up the backside of the EU for several years.

If Nick Clegg and Lord Mandelson reckon that Rogers' departure is a disaster it must clearly be good for the UK!
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:26 pm

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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby miner » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:18 am

What a load of waffle and wind. Just the same sort of output he was generating during his EU Ambassadorship. Good riddance to him.
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:48 am

I submit that Sir Ivan's expertise in these matters is somewhat greater than your own.
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby atticus » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:53 am

What expertise does miner have? Jerking his knee is all he can do.

Whether you are for or against Brexit, I commend to all who read this the final paragraph of Sir Ivan's resignation letter.
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby dls » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:02 am

There have been a few discussions over the last few days, including about this email which have, I think, clarifid my own thinking a little.

On the tele this am (about 12:30) a discussion included a woman who runs focus groups. She pointed out that, perhaps surprisingly, that many who voted to remain are reacting to the the doom and gloom ers, not by moving further back toward remaining , but instead are seeing as the cause of any problem, the apparent nastiness of the Commission. They are saying that if that is the way they wish to behave we are better off without them.

There are many whose whole careers have been built on the European project for whom any life at all outside the EU is necessarily worse. Included among these are the leaders of the LibDems and people such as our now former ambassador to the EU. I am afraid that unless and until such individuals manage to convince me that they are not still fighting a back game of trying to stay within the EU, their opinions are as naught. They are trying to undermine a decision made by the people. They must earn my trust, and for several of them there is simply no sign that they are willing to countenance life outside the EU. How can I give them any trust? This includes the now former ambassador.
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby atticus » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:06 am

So you disagree that muddled thinking should be challenged? That all opposing arguments should be understood? That unwelcome advice should be given where needed?

What did you spend your career doing, if not the above?
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:15 am

atticus wrote:So you disagree that muddled thinking should be challenged?

Absolutely: this is the age of post truth politics, muddled thinking is the only way to do it.
Take me to your lizard...
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby diy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:47 am

"muddled thinking should be challenged" - is another way of saying people who disagree with me are less intelligent.

As I understand it, this chap was a key player in Cameron's "better deal" which has been rejected as not good enough. Hard therefore to imagine he'd be best placed to lead an alternative strategy.

I've come across many excellent negotiators in my time, none of whom have worked in the EU. I'm sure they can put a team together. Arguably familiarity and personal relationships are not a good thing when sitting down to hammer out a deal.

Aggression from the EU now is text book "storm before the calm". Its the oldest trick in the book. It should be met with a "clock face" approach. I'd also:

1. switch the money off now.
2. Create teams to look at how we create max pain for the EU.
3. Priorities most of the effort on securing deals with non-EU nations.

In negotiations - there has to be a benefit for moving towards the otherside's position, there has to be something feared that is to be avoided.
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Excellent News on Brexit

Postby atticus » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:59 am

Your first sentence is wrong.
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