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Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

For discussion of all matters relating to the UK's departure from the European Union

Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby dls » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:26 am

I'm not aware of any estimate of how many regulations are affected, but it must run into the hundreds if not thousands.


More likely tens of thousands.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby jantra » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:54 pm

theycantdothat wrote:
Smouldering Stoat wrote:I would answer the question in the negative. Passing the European Communities Act did not involve the surrender of Parliamentary sovereignty; EU law was incorporated into domestic law only because Parliament said so; and only while Parliament said so. Parliament could have declined to pass the Act; in which case that law would not have been incorporated. It could repeal the Act, in which case EU law would cease to have effect.

Sovereignty is vested where it always has been.


Agreed except that I do not think that if the Act is repealed all EU law is also repealed.



would it really? what about acts of parliament that have resulted in the requirement to meet EU directives - wouldn't they also need repealing?
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby LoveandPeace » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:20 pm

jantra wrote:would it really? what about acts of parliament that have resulted in the requirement to meet EU directives - wouldn't they also need repealing?


I suspect not as they are now an Act of Parliment, British Law. I'll leave it to the Legal Begals to answer but I wanted to post my thoughts first just to see if I'm understanding this the way I should be.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby LoveandPeace » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Thank you for all your help it is appreciated.

Smouldering Stoat wrote:The Government says that it will transpose all of EU law into our domestic law exactly as it is at the moment we leave. We will then be able to change or repeal those we don't like, because they'll be part of British law not EU law.


Ok, so I have another question I'm looking for clarification on.

Is there any truth we will then have thousands more laws to adjudicate on with not enough judges with the experience in these areas?

I thought the law already affected us, imposed on us UK via our UK courts via EU law? Do the regulations only apply to EU type of courts (be aware I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm assuming we have an EU court system).

I have just googled and noted the European Court of Justice. I know I'm out my depth here though. Confused.

Thank you.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:53 pm

EU regulations form part of UK law because an Act of Parliament - the European Communities Act 1972 - says so. Once we leave, we'll have to repeal that Act, and that would mean that those regulations would cease to have effect. That would mean that we'd have no law on those areas, hence the Great Repeal Bill will transpose them directly into our law. There'll still be a lot to argue about, however, and litigation about these matters is likely to make some lawyers extremely rich and place our judicial system under even more strain than it already is.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby dls » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:37 pm

I suspect that there will be a whole host of law inherited from the EU days which will remain on our books for years to come.

What will matter is whether the law as it applies works, not from where it is derived.

There will be lovely issues about what we do to update such laws in teh light if amended directives and regulations and ECJ decisions.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby atticus » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:56 pm

eg TUPE Regs.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby LoveandPeace » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:43 am

Thank you. I'm understanding it that bit more now.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby LoveandPeace » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:31 pm

I am now recently noting there could be issues between the Scottish Government and the UK Government on voting throughh the Great Repeal Bill.

Although I have read issues connected to this in the press I am wondering what issues you think this may present (in legal terms) if the Scottish Government votes down the Bill?

Thank you.
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Re: Is all EU law a creature of a treaty?

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:51 pm

The Scottish Government cannot vote down a Bill. The Scotland Act 2016 says that the Westminster Parliament will not normally legislate for devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament, but that does not give Scotland the power per se to reject a Bill before Parliament.

I assume you mean the European Union (Notice of Withdrawal) Bill - the Bill permitting the Government to give notice of withdrawal which is currently before Parliament. If so, one of the issues before the Supreme Court this week was whether Article 50 can be invoked without the consent of the devolved administrations. The Court ruled unanimously that it can. The Great Repeal Bill (or whatever it ends up being called) is a Bill which has yet to be published, which will repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and make arrangements for EU law to continue to have effect in this country while it is disentangled.
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