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Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

The law relating to media, internet, telecomms etc

Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby atticus » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:59 am

The focus has been on the question whether it is a media stunt and not on the question of overcrowding in trains. That is why media stunts can backfire.

Pull a stunt like that, and it is not surprising when the train company fights back.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:10 am

It's done two things: it's called into question Mr Corbyn's much-vaunted authenticity - we were shown man-of-the-people Jeremy, taking his place on the floor with everyone else, but it's turned out it's not quite like that. That's a very hard quality to get back. David Cameron's image as an environmentally-conscious new Tory never quite recovered from the revelation that, while he cycled to work, his shoes and briefcase were following in a car.

Secondly, it's made him and his team look incompetent. Every political campaigner, particularly in my party, ought to have burned into their memory the War of Jennifer's Ear in the 1992 General Election, in which a PPB about a girl who was on a long waiting list for an ear operation got bogged down in a row about the details of her case. The lesson ought to have been that you have to pay attention to the details of these things, and not leave any hostages to fortune, or the whole thing comes unravelled. And, if that does happen, you need to have a line to follow and to stick to it, so the story doesn't develop. Mr Corbyn's team ran through several, sometimes contradictory, explanations, over the course of Tuesday and Wednesday, thus violating Healey's First Law of Holes.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:21 am

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Secondly, it's made him and his team look incompetent...

Any more so than anything else?
The lesson ought to have been that you have to pay attention to the details of these things, and not leave any hostages to fortune, or the whole thing comes unravelled. And, if that does happen, you need to have a line to follow and to stick to it, so the story doesn't develop.

Isn't the simpler lesson to not pull media stunts when the media hates you?
I hear talk of the BBC still banging on about it at a press conference about the NHS: that seems to me to be a bit out of order.

Mr Corbyn's team ran through several, sometimes contradictory, explanations, over the course of Tuesday and Wednesday, thus violating Healey's First Law of Holes.

I've heard a few explanations, but none I think that actually contradict each other. I have to confess that I don't care enough to pay it much attention, but those in the Corbyn camp seem to think that Virgin's point has been rebuffed.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:00 am

(1) Not really, no, except that this one makes him look shifty as well as incompetent.

(2) It was Sky, not the BBC, but in any case it's something that's in the public eye and that he ought to be expected to be questioned about. He might think it's a storm in a teacup, and a distraction from the things he wants to talk about, but he's only made himself look worse by his reaction to being questioned. It's the job of journalists to ask questions that politicians don't want to be asked.

(3) So far the Corbyn team's story has been:

a) He sat on the floor for three hours (this was their original story).
b) He had a seat but gave it up for someone else (this is what they told Buzzfeed when first challenged).
c) He didn't have a seat and couldn't find one that wasn't reserved.
d) There weren't any seats because they had bags or small people on them.
e) He couldn't walk through the train to find a seat because he was carrying two cups of coffee (look at the pictures to see the truth of this one for yourself).
f) He wanted to sit with his wife and couldn't find two seats together.
g) The story about sitting with his wife is "nonsense".
h) He sat on the floor for 45 minutes (and not the three hours as first claimed).
i) Back to "there were no seats"
j) Back to "there were seats but not two together"

So, not at all contradictory. He did and didn't sit on the floor for three hours. He did and didn't give up his seat. He did and didn't want to sit with his wife. There were and weren't seats available.

Incidentally, by a margin of nearly three to one, YouGov's polling suggests the public believe Virgin Trains over Corbyn: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/24/traingate-public-verdict/. And Train Operating Companies aren't exactly held in great public esteem...
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby miner » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:14 pm

Someone said this clown Corbyn is going to regret picking a fight with Richard Branson.

Stoaty, thanks for your post listing all the contradictions. You've done a very thorough job evaluating the media reports. I hadn't followed this matter all that closely, and so I'd never realized the levels of dishonesty which JC The Messiah and his motley assortment of his Soviet-style arse-lickers had descended to.

The Soviets got away with their dishonesty and incompetence for decades because the media there couldn't challenge any of their lies. Corbyn and his crew don't seem to have quite realized that the 1950s are over.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:30 pm

You're welcome. Defeating Corbyn is, of course, a step on the road to remaining in the EU so it is important work.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby miner » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:14 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:You're welcome. Defeating Corbyn is, of course, a step on the road to remaining in the EU so it is important work.


I think that the decision for the UK to leave the EU has already been taken, or did I somehow get the wrong impression? Are you suffering from "Rip van Winkle syndrome"? ;)
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:13 pm

It is quite possible for the result of a referendum to be reversed by another vote. I didn't notice Eurosceptics regarding the result of the 1975 referendum as being final and binding for all time.
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby miner » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:31 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:It is quite possible for the result of a referendum to be reversed by another vote. I didn't notice Eurosceptics regarding the result of the 1975 referendum as being final and binding for all time.


That was 41 years ago, and it was about membership of the European Common Market, a very different entity to the EU. And the notion of "Eurosceptics" had a different and much less significant interpretation then. And, you are reminded that there was no second Referendum on it.

Stoaty, you really ought to get over that fact that the UK is leaving the European Union. I keep wondering why it is that Remain voters somehow cannot come to terms with the way the vote went on June 23rd when 1.3 million more people voted for leaving the European Shitshow than for sinking deeper into that godforsaken mire. Move forwards, not backwards, Stoaty!
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Re: Virgin Trains and The Information Commissioner

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:43 pm

I accept the result of the referendum*. I just wonder why you're so terrified of the final deal being put before the people: after all, your side claimed it was all about giving them back control?

*Though I note that national laughing-stock Nigel Farage said before the result that he wouldn't accept a Remain vote by a similar margin. That's Quitters for you.
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