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Malaysian Plane downed

Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Russell » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:24 pm

Malaysian Air seems to be a very small carrier yet have experienced within months, two of the biggest aviation incidents this decade. What are the odds?
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby miner » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:05 pm

Russell wrote:Malaysian Air seems to be a very small carrier yet have experienced within months, two of the biggest aviation incidents this decade. What are the odds?


The odds increase dramatically with inept management and the culture of obvious incompetence, inadequate pilot training and sloppy systems which we have seen in the aftermath of the earlier 777 disappearance.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:54 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:I expect that if it seems the Russian separatists fired it, we make maximum use of it to blackmail or shame Putin.

If it seems the Ukrainian state forces fired it, we drop the recording into the black hole where all embarrassing CCTV goes.


And so it begins.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:50 pm

miner wrote:Most reputable long-haul airlines have been avoiding that airspace. See the radar maps of aircraft in the area. High densities of aircraft all around the periphery of that area, but hardly any within it.


That's a testable argument -

Referring to the amazing, hypnotic http://www.flightradar24.com, at this moment there are only a few planes over Ukraine (one is a Lufthansa flight!). However I don't know if that is how it always was. There are other empty spaces, and some major 'corridors' where flights seem to gather.

ukeplanes.png
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:59 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I expect that if it seems the Russian separatists fired it, we make maximum use of it to blackmail or shame Putin.

If it seems the Ukrainian state forces fired it, we drop the recording into the black hole where all embarrassing CCTV goes.


And so it begins.

"The United States believes the Malaysian jet that was destroyed over Ukraine yesterday, killing all 298 people on board, was almost certainly downed by a missile launched by pro-Russian rebels, rather than the Ukrainian Air Force. So say President Barack Obama and Samantha Power, the US Ambassador to the UN, who told a special session of the UN Security Council in New York today that the surface-to-air missile was most likely operated from a separatist-held location in Eastern Ukraine. The UK government issued a similar statement."

And they might well be right. But some people will be sceptical of claims by the US and it's poodle, because we saw them mislead and manipulate the UN over Iraq.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby dls » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:23 pm

We (will) know where the impact was. Would it be possible to have hit the plane from outside the secessionists area of control? It appears to be toward the Russian - Eastern side.
It might be 33k ft up, but that is not a lot of distance horizontally.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby shootist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:23 am

Slartibartfast wrote:Referring to the amazing, hypnotic http://www.flightradar24.com....


Amazing! Yet more of my life to be spent gazing at the monitor.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby dls » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:47 pm

I agree.

Perhaps the internet ought to ban things as too good.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Russell » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:54 pm

I might be wrong here I've not watched much news on this. But isn't there an organisation like the Thomas Cook Military Wing, who decide what is or isn't a no fly zone?

Also, this Russians blowing them up, as widely reported, stinks of double standards. If we were to attribute blame by this standard the USA and UK would have their names on a vast array of incidents, via the supply of weapons.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:00 am

Advice is given to pilots via Notices to Airmen (NOTAMs) which, before this tragedy, did not prohibit overflying this area over 30,000 feet.

Indeed we do sell a lot of weaponry, and we haven't always been as ethical as we ought about our choice of customer. But I'm not aware of any instance in which we've sold a bit of kit like this (which requires a highly-trained crew and two different radars to identify targets accurately) to a group like this.
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