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Malaysian Plane downed

Malaysian Plane downed

Postby dls » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:21 pm

In this horrible incident, one has to ask what the plane was doing flying through this airspace.

Imagine boarding a plane, and the Captain saying "Hey, chaps. We are about to choose your flight path. The best way would take us through/ over airspace in which two or three military aircraft have been shot out of the sky, and which is in the control of a bunch of ungoverned revolutionaries with big ideas. Do yo want to go that way or to take a diversion?"
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:49 pm

True, except that the aircraft was flying at an altitude which was far beyond the capability of the Surface-to-Air missiles that the rebels were believed to have; along a route that numerous other aircraft had been navigating safely every day, up to and including yesterday. If aircraft had to avoid overflying every contested area, long haul air travel would rapidly become unsustainable.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby dls » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:00 pm

No doubt further details will emerge - and possibly even the truth.

However, how many other areas actually have planes being shot down, and it was known that the separatists had acquired such missiles on taking over state bases, and there were complaints of Russia supplying bigger 'assets' into the area.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby atticus » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:04 pm

I agree with dls.

This has to be bad news for Malaysian Airlines coming on top of MH370. Will passengers be considering the airline to be jinxed?

I recall that Pan Am did not last very much longer after Lockerbie, although I think it already had big financial difficulties.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby 3.14 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:45 pm

The plane was 33000 feet when shot down. That's high, over 6 miles high. Most people seem to think that a SAM11 BUK shot it down. Both government and rebels have them as they are sophisticated Russian systems.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:58 pm

Would be very surprising if NSA didn't have the capability to detect a big self-propelled missile launch in that area. I'll bet they have every available satellite watching, and feeding intel/support to Ukraine govt.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:28 pm

Yup. This must be one of the most watched areas on earth. And not just by the US, Britain has a highly-sophisticated intelligence-gathering facility on the sovereign base areas in Cyprus. I find it very difficult to believe that the west doesn't have the capability to detect a missile launch there : we've been looking out for that kind of thing since the Cold War.

The problem is what we do with that knowledge. It would be nice if we were to avoid commemorating the centenary of World War I by having another one.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:06 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Yup. This must be one of the most watched areas on earth. And not just by the US, Britain has a highly-sophisticated intelligence-gathering facility on the sovereign base areas in Cyprus. I find it very difficult to believe that the west doesn't have the capability to detect a missile launch there : we've been looking out for that kind of thing since the Cold War.

The problem is what we do with that knowledge.

I expect that if it seems the Russian separatists fired it, we make maximum use of it to blackmail or shame Putin.

If it seems the Ukrainian state forces fired it, we drop the recording into the black hole where all embarrassing CCTV goes.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby miner » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:29 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:True, except that the aircraft was flying at an altitude which was far beyond the capability of the Surface-to-Air missiles that the rebels were believed to have; along a route that numerous other aircraft had been navigating safely every day, up to and including yesterday. If aircraft had to avoid overflying every contested area, long haul air travel would rapidly become unsustainable.


You're last sentence is complete bollocks.

It's not just a "contested area". It's known to be one of the most dangerous and unstable areas in the entire world, particularly in the context of air travel. No-one really knows what the capability of the weapons in the possession of these guys is.

Most reputable long-haul airlines have been avoiding that airspace. See the radar maps of aircraft in the area. High densities of aircraft all around the periphery of that area, but hardly any within it.

Malaysian Airlines will likely be out of business within a month or less, and deservedly so. After losing a 777 just 3 months or so ago, the utterly inept management of Malaysian Airlines ought to have known better than to risk having any of their aircraft being anywhere near the eastern Ukraine. Quite a record that - losing 2 of the most modern jumbo jets in the space of a few weeks.
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Re: Malaysian Plane downed

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:51 pm

I did see the radar maps of aircraft in the area, and until yesterday many if not most airlines were not avoiding the area. High densities of aircraft across the entire area - last night the news were showing pictures from FlightRadar showing MH17 as one of hundreds of aircraft in the area. Perhaps you are mistaking them for the pictures from today.

The rest of your post is similarly inaccurate.

There are appropriate topics for you to troll on, my subterranean friend, but this is not one of them.
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