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Apple's Irish friends

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Apple's Irish friends

Postby dls » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:22 pm

The Eu decision that Ireland must recoup 13 billion Euros from Apple in under-claimed tax is, as usual, a mixed bag.

First, it does appear consistent with Eu law. I do not know the specifics, but the suggestion is that Ireland gave a particularly sweet deal to a particular company. If so that was a breach of taxation harmonisation principles.

Second. If paid the sum would not be a huge dent in Apple's coffers. They might not wish to call it small change, but in practice it is.

Third, Eire does not want the money (it says). What steps would be taken to collect it?

Fourth, if paid, why should Ireland take it all? Without the deal, The company might well have spread its largesse a little more broadly within Europe, and the profits taxed by other states. Why should Ireland, because and only because, it broke the rules, take the entire benefit. It would clearly be profiting from its own misdeeds.

Last, someone needs to do the maths. Can the employment and other benefits brought to Ireland over the years of the policy really dd up to the sums foregone?
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby diy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:26 pm

Ireland definitely got its money's worth. Most of the big tech firms have data centres, operations or distribution offices in Ireland purely because of the tax breaks. There is no logical reason to base these functions in a country that is so small otherwise. They are not alone however, denmark, holland, luxemburg and the UK all have special deals for different things. The difference is they weren't given to one company. Though the UK's deal with google could be seen the same way.
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby miner » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:58 pm

One wonders why this, if against EU rules, has been allow to go on for as much as 13 years already. Are these people asleep at the wheel?

It has interesting implications in terms of the EU's own authority.
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby dls » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:05 pm

Ireland definitely got its money's worth. Most of the big tech firms have data centres, operations or distribution offices in Ireland purely because of the tax breaks.


But 12 billion Euros worth? I need to be convinced.
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:37 pm

Take me to your lizard...
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby dls » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:37 am

A little disingenuity for breakfast perhaps.
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby diy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:48 am

dls wrote:
Ireland definitely got its money's worth. Most of the big tech firms have data centres, operations or distribution offices in Ireland purely because of the tax breaks.


But 12 billion Euros worth? I need to be convinced.


You are looking at it the wrong way. Had Apple (and all the other technology firms) not based their European sales HQs in dublin, then what taxes would they have got and what industries would exist?

1% of something is better than 10% of nothing.

Dublin feeds off the rest of Europe's IT/Tech business, they are not alone. The issue here is the special deal done for the worlds richest company.
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:58 am

diy wrote:The issue here is the special deal done for the worlds richest company.

Were they the richest when the deal was done?
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby diy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:52 am

I think its only the most recent payments which are attracting attention.. The Last 3 or 4 years - of course the definition of richest is really open to debate - do you count profit or market cap. It was definitely in the top 3 of the most "valuable". But that is in a world where facebook out ranks GE
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Re: Apple's Irish friends

Postby dls » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:19 pm

Sorry, diy -the recoupment goes back much further than the last five years.
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