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Freeman On the Land - RIP

To propose and debate astonishing propositions of law. Please stay polite and rational.

Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby zebedee » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:24 am

Why don't you just leave people to their fantasies? What's the hurt to you?

It's not your role in life to save the odd fantasist from coming an occasional cropper. What are you, a Jesus for oddballs?
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:12 am

zebedee wrote:It's not your role in life to save the odd fantasist from coming an occasional cropper.

Who are you to say what anyone's role in life is?
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby cbcbcb » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:25 pm

Notice carefully, the labeling used by any opposition .

Already, dls , seams to of bought into the FREEMAN label. Next look for the tags, GURU, TERRORIST , SCAMMERS to also be associated with this topic.


But what is going on ? Years ago, even on these boards people seemed incapable of addressing the issue, usually their best call was ' twaddle ' and then silence..

But now, some years on, it does seem to be becoming problematic to western governments. :roll: What a surprise , is it ? Not really, as I've been calling it as a legal Armageddon for these last years.. Still , it is now is coming into the fore more , so at least the DENIERS from years back, have at least another chance to address the topic. And this time because the topic is being told to them by their peers, they may indeed find it easier to talk about !!! :)

Well, all good..... I've said the mainstream is about 2 years behind ' citizens media ' and that appears to be the case on this topic too.....


Now are we going to see more freemen hitting the system, or is it as dls announces, they have all rested in peace ?


Anyone ? Yes, you lurking at the back there .............
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby faithless » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:34 am

Maggie, you are such a dickhead.
Crap_Buddhist wrote:Notice carefully, the labeling used by any opposition .
Already, dls , seams to of bought into the FREEMAN label. Next look for the tags, GURU, TERRORIST , SCAMMERS to also be associated with this topic.

It's what they call themselves, you turkey.
But what is going on ? Years ago, even on these boards people seemed incapable of addressing the issue, usually their best call was ' twaddle ' and then silence.

Untrue. It was discussed at length, we came to a general conclusion that it was piffle, and then afterwards most of the responses were dismissive. Do try to keep up.
But now, some years on, it does seem to be becoming problematic to western governments. What a surprise , is it ? Not really, as I've been calling it as a legal Armageddon for these last years.. Still , it is now is coming into the fore more , so at least the DENIERS from years back, have at least another chance to address the topic. And this time because the topic is being told to them by their peers, they may indeed find it easier to talk about !!! Well, all good..... I've said the mainstream is about 2 years behind ' citizens media ' and that appears to be the case on this topic too...

Problematic only because it wastes court time and other resources, not because it is unanswerable.
Now are we going to see more freemen hitting the system, or is it as dls announces, they have all rested in peace ?

Hang on, wasn't it you complaining about the use of the label 'freemen', as recently as the beginning of this post?
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby dls » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:32 am

I know that I am a bit slow and that it takes time for me to catch up, but I think I have got to one particular point in all this.

When I was in practice, attending the magistrates court, there were regular times when a youth suddenly found that he was being told in very clear terms what he must or must not do. They had simply got so far without concluding that anyone else had power over them.

Thus it is with the freemen. It is like talking to a two year old who keeps asking 'But why?' Any suggestion that the courts have jurisdiction is met wit 'By what right?' The question is of course eventually circular. Such a question amounts to 'what law is it that gives the law a right over me?' Holding back for a moment, the logical nature of that question indicates that whatever it is which will provide an answer is not itself a law. Thus it is that the judge's answer is correct - that which underpins the law is not itself a law, it is simply power.
That power has moral justification in that it is part of the fact that we live in a society. Idiots claiming freedom from the domination of law are yet ready to use money, visit an NHS dentist, to get a bus, to use the internet, to buy shoes or food of the means of cooking them. There are of course many small aspects of life which can for a time be carried on apparently outside society.

You can live in the woods for a time. You can make all your own clothes from your own materials, and practice self dentistry, feed yourself and keep yourself warm, and educate your children in the hovel, make each and every tool used, using self acquired knowledge, but in reality even so you live and breathe the protection of the defence of the realm, and the police service which does not leave you open to wild gangs murdering you.
There may be one or two who lead lives of true misery in a state nearly approaching this freedom, but none achieving it - at least for any length of time.
They take the benefits however limited of the fact that they are part of a society. That take requires a give. That give is a proper acceptance of the power of the state over you.
And just in case you choose not to give, the law smiles, pats you on the head like a recalcitrant three year old, says 'diddums' and takes it anyway.
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:00 am

dls wrote:You can live in the woods for a time. You can make all your own clothes from your own materials, and practice self dentistry, feed yourself and keep yourself warm, and educate your children in the hovel, make each and every tool used, using self acquired knowledge, but in reality even so you live and breathe the protection of the defence of the realm, and the police service which does not leave you open to wild gangs murdering you.

I am not entirely convinced by that.
The risk of invasion by a foreign power is of little consequence to such a hermit, and if he is at risk from marauding gangs, it is unlikely that the police would hear about it in order to act.
OTOH, what taxes would he be expected to pay? None that I can think of.
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby dls » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:31 am

My point is that the question is fundamentally incorrect in its logic.

In philosophy there is a substantial branch which deals with questions whose supposed significance derives from a mistake of logic.

What law justifies law is circular.
What sticks glue to a surface?
What comes before the beginning of time?

Wittgenstein's green and brown books (as later exemplified in some of Hailsham's more rambling judgments) were followed by Austin's theories in the fifties and sixties were all explorations of how when someone asks a daft question, you just say 'that's daft', and go off to have an omelette.
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:21 pm

dls wrote:My point is that the question is fundamentally incorrect in its logic.

I wasn't disputing your fundamental point, just picking at that bit.
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby dls » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:17 pm

I somehow knew you might.
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Re: Freeman On the Land - RIP

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:02 pm

I wouldn't want to let you down. ;)
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