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Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

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Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby landlordnightmare » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:26 am

Continued from http://www.swarblaw.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2820&p=35189#p35189

This from Harvard

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1348118.files/E1600%20Class%2010%20Notes.pdf

They seem to back the Hotel California origin, and can't seem to explain the Roach Motel reference! Not conclusive proof yet I agree, but Zeb is offering nothing....

California and Roach Hotels (an aside on bundling, vertical
integration, managed lock-in and reinventing wheels)
"Relax," said the night man,
"We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!"
Final lines of The Eagles’ Hotel California,10
The notion of a business ecosystem has become chic in management circles due largely,
we believe, to the success of Apple’s set of complementary and integrated businesses.
Gary Hamel refers to Apple’s business model as an ecosystem and suggests that many
firms could profit by imitating it. The notion of a commercial ecosystem is hot now
although there is little that is new about it and even less that is consistent with natural
ecosystems. The ecosystem is a form of lock-in executed through a proprietary system,
complementary products, and the existence of substantial switching costs.
The casual business jargon terms for what Hamel calls the
ecosystem model are the California Hotel and the Roach
Motel models and these terms may more accurately
describe the intent and operation of a business model
designed to lock customers into a proprietary system with
high exit costs. The Eagle’s hit 1977 song is clearly the
inspiration for the California Hotel terminology but the source of the Roach variant is not
easy to locate. It is typically used in a pejorative manner, as when Larry Ellison derides
his competitor Salesman.com as the, “ultimate vendor lock-in”, in which a customer can
“check in, but can’t check out,” calling it “the roach motel of clouds.”11 The ecosystem,
and the California or Roach Hotel models are typically designed to attract customers with
attractive prices or features and then to lock them in with high exit costs. Exit costs may
be contractual or simply very high transactions costs of changing vendors due to various
switching costs.
The term “ecosystem” is an old concept recycled with a new label. Almost all products
exist within an “ecosystem.” The light bulb is a classic example of a product and its
ecosystem. The idea of the light bulb had been around for some time before Thomas
Edison perfected a sufficiently durable version in 1879. But before Edison could capture
any value from his light bulb, he had to develop or invent the collateral elements of the
system including a reasonably efficient dynamo and a reliable distribution system
including voltage regulation, switches, and fuses. In 1882 Edison completed the electrical
Last edited by landlordnightmare on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Note: I am not legally qualified, just been around a few blocks. The sorry cynic.
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby landlordnightmare » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:04 am

OK

The name "Roach Motel" is United States federal trademark No. 1,059,314, for which Black Flag claims a date of earliest use of May 7, 1976.


The Hotel California album is #37 on the Rolling Stone list of the 500 Greatest Albums of all time. According to the magazine, Don Henley said that the band was in pursuit of a note perfect song. The Eagles spent 8 months in the studio polishing take after take after take. Henley also said, "We just locked ourselves in. We had a refrigerator, a ping pong table, roller skates and a couple cots. We would go in and stay for 2 or 3 days at a time." (thanks, Ray - Stockton, NJ)


from
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1121

Hotel California is the fifth studio album by the American rock band the Eagles, released on December 8, 1976


8 Months recording => April 1976 (or earlier) recording started, Black Flag only claim the 'earliest use' of their product was May 1976. Highly unlikely that given the patent was not until 1977 a massive advertising campaing would have been waged between its first use in May 1976 and December 1976 for the Eagles to have changed the lyrics to their song that they had been recording for 8 months based on a campaign for a product that was not even yet patented!

I would put it to Zeb that either their is no connection between the song and the ad tag line, or Black Flag pinched the idea off the Eagles.

When did they first use that Tag line? The earliest reference I can find is 1978. 1 Year after Hotel California became a massive number 1 single.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4c2gadmytg
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby atticus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:40 am

I was, of course, quoting The Eagles. I had not previously heard of the American Roach Motel (what is this thing?) The concepts are clearly similar.
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby atticus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:41 am

Of course had someone else posted that, I would have suggested use of a searching-engine!

So I did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roach_Motel_(insect_trap)
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby zebedee » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:06 am

Try this one instead, Atticus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roach_Motel_(insect_trap)

A roach motel, in common parlance; the type of place you wouldn't wish to overstay if you get my drift. It's there too in Wiki somewhere. Everything is in Wiki these days; [I can see the refrain 'schools n' ospitals' dying out at some point. We don't need skools no more.]
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby atticus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:10 am

Which came first, the insect trap or the use of the phrase in common parlance?

I am expecting an essay, with Harvard referencing and links.
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby zebedee » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:34 am

The Roach Motel ad campaign quickly struck a chord in the American psyche as successful ad campaigns do. "They check in but they don't check out" became a well known line. Everyone knew about the Roach Motel for a while. Out of the brand name evolved its alternative use as a noun.

The Ginsu Knife was another famous TV product of that hard sell, product demonstration type. Even Muhammed Ali bought one and spoke about it on a chat show. They were only available through a TV offer. The Ginsu knife ad is an all time classic, sparking the genre seen in derivative form today when you watch direct sell ads or product demonstration shows, usually during the dead of TV or on dedicated digital home shopping channels.
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby landlordnightmare » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:13 pm

zebedee wrote:The Roach Motel ad campaign quickly struck a chord in the American psyche as successful ad campaigns do.


Perhaps because the American 'psyche' [EDIT how do you spell that? - what exactly is it?] had already been entrapped by the Eagles concept that they had embraced so recently (and conitinued to).

Black Flag, I understand, also ran another iconic campaign for Roach Motel (well recognised in advertising I believe) that openly used Elvis Presley's 'Suspiscious Minds'.

Perhaps, as Nelson Mandela recognised Sport can unite a Nation and be used for greater ends,- Blag Flag (or their clever advertising/PR agents) recognised the power that could be gained by associating their product with music icons of the time :D
Last edited by landlordnightmare on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Note: I am not legally qualified, just been around a few blocks. The sorry cynic.
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Re: Hotel California vs Roach Motel...which came first

Postby landlordnightmare » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:29 pm

On a side track (even to this thread!!)- my recent research on (cock)roaches led to some strange findings...

It seems they have been going through some bad press recently (past 100 years or so) - apparently they used to be revered in ancient times (perhaps not surprising - if the current given supposed understanding is that they are the species most likely to survive a nuclear hollocust).

But weirdly I read that as recently as the 18th Centuary in Europe they were deliberatlely introduced into newly built homes as a sensible thing to do for the home.

I guess they need a new PR agent - I reckon they should approach Simon Cowell and maybe we will see them as winners of the X-Factor soon! :D :D
Note: I am not legally qualified, just been around a few blocks. The sorry cynic.
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