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Spy in a suitcase

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Spy in a suitcase

Postby Alexb123 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:49 pm

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/209657/ ... -suitcase/

I'm sure you have heard of this case. What I don't understand is the coroners report (not mentioned in the link, link selected for better pictures) of cause of death unknown. Surely, there must always be a balance of probabilities? Also, surely locking yourself in a case would, as far as I can guess, only have two causes of death, suffocation, which is unlikely as he must have had some room for maneuver to lock himself in, or starvation.

Thoughts?
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:20 pm

Postural asphyxia. Thrombosis. Heart attack or stroke. Dehydration.

The Coroner has returned a verdict of Unlawful Killing. The Police, looking at it from the viewpoint of having to make a prosecution stick, if a suspect could be found, disagree. These things happen.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby zebedee » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:40 pm

Alexb123 wrote:Also, surely locking yourself in a case would, as far as I can guess, only have two causes of death, suffocation, which is unlikely as he must have had some room for maneuver to lock himself in, or starvation.

Imagine yourself, Alex, half-mad as it is, enclosed and locked in a bag (you'd have to be a genius just to achieve that) in a locked, private flat because you don't want anyone else to realise you're a weirdo and where no one can therefore easily find you, a situation which would make you more than half-mad already by that point, and then it dawns on you that you cannot escape back out for some reason like you dropped the key on your way in, how do you think your brain and body would cope with that little problem?
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Alexb123 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:53 pm

Okay yes certainly more options than I first thought. I cannot imagine how difficult I would find it to be in that situation, the thought of it is bad enough.

But all of the options are catastrophic, so surely they would clearly show up in postmortem?
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:07 pm

It depends upon the cause of death and the condition of the body.

The Coroner based her conclusions in part upon the fact that experts had tried 400 times to lock themselves inside an identical bag, and had failed to do so. Since then footage has emerged of someone doing just that. So, something the Coroner had discounted as being impossible turned out to be possible after all.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby 3.14 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:34 pm

Alexb123 wrote:so surely they would clearly show up in postmortem?
I think you watch too much CSI. A postmortem is not a catch all process. Many times, even a cause of death is difficult to establish never mind anything else.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Alexb123 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:57 pm

I agree I'm just guessing but to have the power to dissect the body for a cause of death is a very powerful tool and would give a large amount of clues (if not a conclusion). If you then consider the narrow scope of causes for locking yourself in a case I would think adding these two factors together would allow at the very least a balance of probabilities.

If you also consider that the secret services didn't want his work disclosed you have to consider this could be murder. And why was he in the bath? And he was a very intelligent man, why would he even consider doing this without a safety valve? Its not a complex error to make, its very simple, 'if' it does work he will die.
Last edited by Alexb123 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Alexb123 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:00 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:It depends upon the cause of death and the condition of the body.

The Coroner based her conclusions in part upon the fact that experts had tried 400 times to lock themselves inside an identical bag, and had failed to do so. Since then footage has emerged of someone doing just that. So, something the Coroner had discounted as being impossible turned out to be possible after all.


Surely, if you change the parameters of the experiment you will get there in the end? Slight change in body to bag volume? Less food in the stomach? Warmer weather conditions? This isn't something that can be replicated as if in-situ.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:32 pm

Correct. You are just guessing.
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Re: Spy in a suitcase

Postby Boo » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:59 pm

Alexb123 wrote: And he was a very intelligent man, why would he even consider doing this without a safety valve?


Even the most intelligent folk can make dumb decisions.

It's only juicy reading to some as it's not a conventional death. Maybe that was deliberate.
We'll never know.
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