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New UK immigration rules...

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New UK immigration rules...

Postby smuge » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:59 pm

Some of the best nurses the NHS have are from overseas and I doubt they will be earning over £35,000. I hope there is a clause to exclude them?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... e-affected
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:38 pm

It is equally likely that some of the worst nurses the NHS have are from overseas. The real question that remains is not the NHS reliance on staff recruited from overseas but why aren't the very best nurses and NHS staff recruited and trained in this country in the first place?
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:51 pm

Because we treat our nurses like crap?
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:08 pm

Hairyloon wrote:Because we treat our nurses like crap?


Quite possibly. But if you go back to, say, the 50s and 60s at least, nurses were paid very poorly, worked under a level of discipline that is simply unheard of today, put in more hours, and were expected to do work that nurses today would simply refuse to do, yet they were placed on a platform in society unequalled by just about any other calling. I use the term 'calling' because that is what I believe nursing is. Instead it has become, in today's world, just another job for so many people who just want to work their way up the career path to a position where they don't have to bother themselves with the patients. Very similar to the police.
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:37 pm

Did it stop being a calling because it became just a job, or did it become just a job because it stopped being a calling?
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby Boo » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:59 pm

shootist wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:Because we treat our nurses like crap?


Quite possibly. But if you go back to, say, the 50s and 60s at least, nurses were paid very poorly, worked under a level of discipline that is simply unheard of today, put in more hours, and were expected to do work that nurses today would simply refuse to do, yet they were placed on a platform in society unequalled by just about any other calling. I use the term 'calling' because that is what I believe nursing is. Instead it has become, in today's world, just another job for so many people who just want to work their way up the career path to a position where they don't have to bother themselves with the patients.


Nah.

Nurses in the past were recruited via an easy route - basic level entry.
Now it's degree level entry - as it should be considering the role - those seeking a career via a walk in the park route now have to demonstrate their knowledge and competence via the academic route.
Instead of thinking "OK, let's go for 6 years in a hospital before moving into the community" - where the decent jobs and pay are - depending on grade of course...there is the attitude the NHS hospital is the be all and end all.
But this is where recruitment is at its lowest.

Deporting foreign born nurses is not going to produce an influx of British student nurses.
When push comes to shove, there is an option of becoming a British Citizen should the individual fit the criteria and pass the examinations.

We should question why certain members of society do not want to strive academically?
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:01 pm

Hairyloon wrote:Did it stop being a calling because it became just a job, or did it become just a job because it stopped being a calling?


I can't say about nurses for sure but I do know that when police pay went up from being derisory (My first month's pay saw me with less disposable income than I had while on a brief session on the dole) to just being adequate there was an influx of 'career minded' individuals who's enthusiasm for the job went from interested very quickly to a determination to move away from the front line as soon as possible. In the meantime they were often dedicated to avoiding any police work, possibly due to some sort of allergy to ink.
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:12 pm

A knotty problem then.
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby shootist » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:14 pm

Boo wrote:Nah.

Nurses in the past were recruited via an easy route - basic level entry.
Now it's degree level entry - as it should be considering the role - those seeking a career via a walk in the park route now have to demonstrate their knowledge and competence via the academic route.
Instead of thinking "OK, let's go for 6 years in a hospital before moving into the community" - where the decent jobs and pay are - depending on grade of course...there is the attitude the NHS hospital is the be all and end all.
But this is where recruitment is at its lowest.

Deporting foreign born nurses is not going to produce an influx of British student nurses.
When push comes to shove, there is an option of becoming a British Citizen should the individual fit the criteria and pass the examinations.

We should question why certain members of society do not want to strive academically?


in a way you prove my point. There is more to nursing than being a short hand doctor working at degree level. I am reminded of the time when I was newly in hospital following motorcycle crash. I was a complete mess and in great pain. Just one nurse, an old hand (although she wouldn't thank me for calling her that) she helped me more towards early recovery by one simple, unqualified, caring, act. When I complained that I felt grubby and uncomfortable she carted me out to the bathroom, and helped me scrub up. I felt 100% better by the time she levered me back into bed. By contrast the younger, and probably more 'qualified' nurses were overheard to complain "What the bloody hell does he want now?" (They probably forgot it was two in the morning and quiet as the grave) when I was pressing my call button to ask for more morphine because I was in agony, or something close to. I gathered later that they were doing their ward round records.

The question posed at the end of your post, while accurate and worthy of consideration, might better be asked as "Why are certain members of society not prepared to contribute anything to that society?" I suspect the answer to that one may be that we have encouraged a society in which rights have replaced responsibility.
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Re: New UK immigration rules...

Postby Boo » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:58 pm

That would have been a qualified act - part of her training to ensure she delivered the best care possible.

As for the other nurses' remarks, you had every right to bring what you heard to their attention and/or make a complaint. Being overheard by patients making remarks like that is a no no.
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