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Schengen or not

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Schengen or not

Postby dls » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:18 pm

In a remarkable interview last week, there was a French local politician saying that the numbers of aspiring asylum applicants in Calais rather than Kent was our fault for not signing up to Schengen. The statement was at the same time jaw dropping and simple and understandable.

If we signed up for Schengen the seekers would find, and Calais would be free. Their presence in and cost to Calais is down to our refusal.

Question for Scotland - if you join Europe, will you be allowed not too sign up for Schengen, and if you do, what form will the border controls take at Hadrian's wall?
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby miner » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Typically inane remark from some tosspot garlic- & cheese-eating surrender monkey.

Schengen deals in essence with land borders. Whether the Haggis-eaters sign up to Schengen or not if they vote for independence is irrelevant, as the only land border they would have would be with England at Hadrian's Wall. Since England did not sign up for Schengen, the matter of Scotland signing up for Schengen or not seems to be one of supreme irrelevance!

I'm amazed to have just found out that Iceland is a signatory to the Schengen agreement. I suppose it's irrelevant, really, because Iceland has some pretty rigorous Customs checks anyway, and the airlines and marine authorities would weed out the undesirables anyway via their own procedures.
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby diy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:42 am

The French see this as an English problem and the fact that they allow them to sit and wait while they attempt to hop over shows how they see it. It seems odd that they do nothing to capture and deport the illegals who are on French soil. They see themselves as a hub country for a European wide problem. Perhaps they should focus not on how they get rid of them, but how they stop them coming in to France to start.

I must admit I was quite nervous in the motorhome coming back - I thought we'd be any easy target. But I saw nothing.
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby atticus » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:22 am

Why are some people incapable of respect when debating? The French are French, the Scots are Scots. Calling them insulting names says very much more about you than about them.
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:11 pm

diy wrote:They see themselves as a hub country for a European wide problem. Perhaps they should focus not on how they get rid of them, but how they stop them coming in to France to start.

Wouldn't it be better if we (that is Europe) try to address the cause of the problem rather than reacting to the effects of it?
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby atticus » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:32 pm

The causes are outside Europe. Dealing with them will require massive amounts of assistance, financial and otherwise. Are we ready to do that?
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby dls » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:39 pm

Back to the question before my question . . should we in the UK sign up for Schengen?
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby diy » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:51 pm

Evidence suggest it would merely be a way to fast track illegal immigrants to the UK since nobody seems to care if they come in illegally. Its where they intend to end up that is important. Providing they don't intend to stay they don't seem to care too much.
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby JoeDaFone » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:33 pm

dls wrote:Back to the question before my question . . should we in the UK sign up for Schengen?


I really don't think it would be practical for the UK to sign up; there is far too much of a risk that everyone currently camped in Sangatte would enter the country and this would in turn encourage yet more migrants to head straight for the UK as well. The system we have at present is much better for an island nation as it allows for proper border checks on goods and animals (do we want rabies in the UK) as well as on people.
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Re: Schengen or not

Postby miner » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:01 pm

diy wrote: Perhaps they should focus not on how they get rid of them, but how they stop them coming in to France to start.


That is somewhat difficult, having been a signatory to the Schengen agreement. Basically, by signing, you are agreeing to allow the border controls of some other signatory country to determine who enters your country via a land border.

Even having signed the Schengen agreement, any signatory is free at any time to reintroduce its own border controls - and that has been done from time to time to stop terrorists crossing borders and the French could easily do that to reduce the porosity of its borders and to curtail the problem, but of course the French authorities typically look the other way when they see a problem such as that which exists and has existed for years at Sangatte. They would rather wave the offenders through and send them on their way to England and make them the UK's problem rather than taking any positive action themselves to deal with the issue as a responsible EU member.

Few people realize that for border-crossing between Schengen signatory countries, the proviso is that a person crossing the border has his normal border-crossing document(s) (= Passport in the first instance) with him and available for inspection at the border if called upon to do so.

A lot of folk seem to think that Schengen opened the doors to passport-free crossing of borders. It did not. All it meant was that in the normal course of events, documents assumed to be held by the border-crosser would not normally be checked by customs and immigration officials at borders.

I have known a number of folk who work in one EU country and live in another, and cross the border each way daily. They all carry their passports with them.
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