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Private car parks

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Private car parks

Postby Legaleye » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:00 pm

Before placing double yellow lines (DYL) on the highway local authorities require Traffic Management Orders (TMO) to legitimise there usage.
A supermarket near to me has placed DYL on the entrance road to their car park, there is no (TMO) for them, I have been informed that the roadway is private so a TMO is not required.
The car park has a maximum parking time of 1 hour, this is stated on the parking signs situated in various locations in the car park.
There are no signs stating the road is on private land. I spoke to the parking attendant and queried the parking time of 1 hour as being a blue badge holder I can legally park on DYL for a period not exceeding 3 hours provided I display the time on my clock next to my blue badge, I was shocked to discover that should I park on the DYL even when displaying my blue badge and time disc I would be given a PCN as no one is entitled to park on DYL on a private road!
As private car parking and the issuing of PCN's is contract law and the car parking signs do not mention that the entrance road is a private road or that no parking is allowed on the DYL is the parking attendant correct if he issues me with a PCN, as I fail to see how a contract has been agreed?
Also as the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) are covered by Crown Copyright does this mean that anyone using the signs contained in those directions on private roads is breaking copyright law?
Although it has nothing to do with parking there is also a crossing on the road which does not have zigzags either before or after it.
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Re: Private car parks

Postby dls » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:54 pm

Forget copyright.

He does not issue a PCN.

Land is private unless dedicated or otherwise. There is no need to say it is.
When you park on private land, the land owner is reasonably free to impose whatever conditions he wants.
It may be unwise to use DYL as any equivalent, but is is a helpful shorthand.
A blue badge gives you no particular privilege on private land, but the supermarket has a duty to make reasonable accomodation to disability.

You park subject to their T&Cs. They may include many different provisions of which we know not what.
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Re: Private car parks

Postby Legaleye » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:21 pm

Thanks dls
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Re: Private car parks

Postby atticus » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:25 pm

The yellow lines are likely to be there to help ensure passage of vehicles. Supermarkets usually have designated spaces for drivers with disabilities.
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Re: Private car parks

Postby Legaleye » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:08 pm

There are spaces for disabled drivers, what I was concerned at was DYL on private land having a different meaning to DYL on public roads, doing your shopping in less than an hour could prove difficult for many wheelchair users, this could lead to many (me included) taking advantage of the fact blue badge holders are allowed up to 3 hours parking on DYL, then receiving a £70 PCN.
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Re: Private car parks

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:23 am

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Re: Private car parks

Postby diy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:19 am

It would be difficult to establish the terms of the contract with DYL. It could probably be argued that it means the same as DYL on a highway, but the private parking firm needs enforcer. He needs to establish the terms of the contract and also to show they were accepted. There have been a lot of cases about clear signage etc, so it would be hard to show why in this case those requirements don't apply.

As a curve ball, the DYL might actually suggest a right of way over the private land, making it harder for the landowner to bring an alternative claim of trespass.
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Private car parks

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:16 am

The OP uses DYL to signify a certain type of painted road marking.

As to establishing a contract, see the Parking Eye case. The Supreme Court thought otherwise.
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Re: Private car parks

Postby Legaleye » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:15 am

dls wrote:Forget copyright.

He does not issue a PCN.

Land is private unless dedicated or otherwise. There is no need to say it is.
When you park on private land, the land owner is reasonably free to impose whatever conditions he wants.
It may be unwise to use DYL as any equivalent, but is is a helpful shorthand.
A blue badge gives you no particular privilege on private land, but the supermarket has a duty to make reasonable accomodation to disability.

You park subject to their T&Cs. They may include many different provisions of which we know not what.

dls, when you say 'Forget copyright' am I right in assuming that copyright does exist, but the copyright owner would not pursue any infringement?
In this car park a blue badge gives the owner the privilege of parking in a disabled bay (parking signs say a valid blue badge must be displayed in a disabled bay), the supermarket has a duty to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate the disabled, there is no adjustment made in the time a disabled shopper has in parking, they are not allowed any extension to the 1 hour, do you think this could be seen as discriminatory under the equality act?
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Re: Private car parks

Postby diy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:05 pm

atticus wrote:The OP uses DYL to signify a certain type of painted road marking.

As to establishing a contract, see the Parking Eye case. The Supreme Court thought otherwise.

That case was about the ability to charge a fee that represented a commercial deterrent rather than a pre-estimate of liquidated damages. It had nothing to do withe use of double yellows. Or are you thinking of a different case?

Its one thing to say on a sign you agree to pay me £60 if you park here (and for that not to be a valid pre-estimate of Liquidated damages), its another to rely on the meaning of a DYL to mean you agree to pay me £60 if you park here, because everyone knows that the fine is £60 if you park on a double yellow, therefore my double yellows have the same meaning in civil contracts as they do on a highway.
Legaleye wrote:dls, when you say 'Forget copyright' am I right in assuming that copyright does exist, but the copyright owner would not pursue any infringement?

Without wishing to speak for him, while the publication is subject to copyright, its unlikely that anyone had trademarked the line and the original "inventor" of the painted line probably can't protect it in this situation. Not least that this copyright, if it existed in the anonymous work has expired, since road lines were first used in 1914. Another reason for Forgetting it, is that you have no right to enforce the copyright.
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