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Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Issues arising from our actions on the roads - including Transport.

Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:40 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:We've discussed this before.


We have, but I don't see a clear answer there either...
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Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby atticus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:51 pm

You might read the last post, which puts it in a nutshell. This is not my area by any means, but judicious examination of the other resources available on the Internet indicates that intention to drive is a key question.
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Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:35 pm

Subject: Self Defence, the law and practice.

diy wrote:Hmmm ok, so I did a bit of reading up and will get round to starting a thread in the proper place. summary is you have a defence if you can prove you didn't intend to drive. On blocks, blinds closed, hooked up to power etc might help.

It's still to vague for my liking
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Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby diy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:11 pm

Sec 5(1) RTA 1988

If a person -

(a)...

(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,

after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence .

However, there is no definition of in charge - some police guidelines suggest..
"There is no hard and fast rule or strict test for what constitutes 'in charge' for the purposes of being in charge of a vehicle whilst under the influence of drink or drugs under section 4 and being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the prescribed limit under section 5 of the 1988 Act. However, a close connection between the defendant and control of the vehicle is required. That connection may be evidenced by the defendants position in relation to the car, his actions, possession of a key which fits the ignition, his intentions as regards control of the vehicle and the position of anyone else in, at or near the vehicle."

then we have
Sec 5(2) offers a statutory defence for 'In Charge'

5(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit .

Sheldrake vs dpp says..
http://swarb.co.uk/sheldrake-v-director ... -oct-2004/

There have been cases where HGV drivers in sleeper cabs which need keys in ignition to stop the alarms activating or the heater switching off have been done for Drunk in charge - there is also normally only one way in
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:28 pm

diy wrote:Sec 5(1) RTA 1988

If a person -

(a)...

(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,

after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence .

However, there is no definition of in charge...


Is there a definition of "motor vehicle"?
Would it still be a motor vehicle if you removed the motor? If it would not, then how much of the motor would you have to remove before it stops being one?

CPS Guidelines wrote:The term 'motor vehicle' is defined in section 185(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and section 136(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads".

Although this is the legal definition, ultimately it is a matter of fact and degree for a court to interpret as to whether or not a vehicle is a motor vehicle at the time of the incident.

The term mechanically propelled vehicle is not defined in the Road Traffic Acts. It is ultimately a matter of fact and degree for the court to decide. At its most basic level it is a vehicle which can be propelled by mechanical means. It can include both electrically and steam powered vehicles.

Intended or adapted for use on roads is also not defined by statute and again ultimately a matter for the court to decide based on the evidence before it.

There has, however, been extensive case law on the subject and the main point that emerges is what is known as the reasonable man test
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Re: Drunk in Charge of a motor vehicle.

Postby diy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:52 pm

Difficult when they have number plates and are subject to VED, require insurance,, MOT and need a driving licence
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