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Vehicle misdescription

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Vehicle misdescription

Postby dls » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:47 pm

A major motor manufacturer mis-states the efficiency of huge numbers of cars. We all wonder what the remedy is.

I wonder:

When a vehicle is put on the road the manufacturer submits its specification to the DOT(? as was), and a type approval certificate issued.
Without that certificate, cars cannot be sold.
If the certificate was obtained by deception?
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby tph » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Would it be deception. A test was performed and the results were obtained. The fact that the 'test' fails to represent the real world of driving is not a failure on the part of the vehicle manufacturer.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby dls » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:30 am

As I have said, it depends upon the way in which the test is defined.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:41 am

As I understand, the test was not conducted by the vehicle manufacturer, but by the relevant government department: is there not a good argument that it is their fault?
If I understand correctly, the alleged cheating is that the car detects that it is being tested and so drives as economically as it can: it is therefore a fair test of the emission levels that the car is capable of producing.

ETA I see TPH makes that point on the other thread.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby atticus » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:08 pm

Yes. There is not a good argument that it is the testing agency's fault.

The vehicle has been submitted for testing with software specifically designed to cheat the test. That cannot be the fault of the testing agency.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby tph » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:40 pm

I'm not sure 'cheat' is the right word. The computer in the car is set to perform optimally during conditions which are the test is based on. I would not consider that cheating.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby atticus » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:53 pm

"Cheat" is the word everyone is using.
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:09 pm

tph wrote:I'm not sure 'cheat' is the right word. The computer in the car is set to perform optimally during conditions which are the test is based on. I would not consider that cheating.

If this is an option that the user can choose to engage, then I can see no grounds to call it cheating.
The question might be how deeply hidden in the small print of the advanced user manual can it be for that to still be a valid argument?
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby diy » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:39 pm

Its not clear if its in the consumers interest to have the fix fitted.
My suggestions are not legal advice
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Re: Vehicle misdescription

Postby dls » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:03 pm

Whether it is or was a cheat can depend on the description in the test handbook.

There is a lot of bile being thrown at this company, but everyone has known that the figures used and promised bear little relation to the real world. The only difference is that we now know why.
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