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Charity Cut Price Sale.

Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:45 am

I now have a copy of the original conveyance. It is between "His Most Excellent Majesty of the one part and <some people> trustees of <Village WI> of the other part."

I think the relevant section is here:

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I found it buried on page one of the deeds.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:25 pm

Read this thread again, and explain why you appear to believe that applies in perpetuity.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby dls » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:28 pm

The clause may very easily not create a binding trust. It is arguably a mere explanation.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:31 pm

The Charity Commission letter quoted by the OP refers to trusts created by a conveyance. There may be operative clauses that do that.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby dls » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:49 pm

There may indeed be such.I was going to say that a modern conveyance would be very much more explicit, but to be fair older conveyancing practice may well have been even more fastidious.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:55 pm

atticus wrote:Read this thread again, and explain why you appear to believe that applies in perpetuity.

Why would it not? Things generally last until they are brought to an end, what would have brought this to an end?

atticus wrote:The Charity Commission letter quoted by the OP refers to trussts created by a conveyance. There may be operative clauses that do that.

I believe that this document is the conveyance that they refer to.
dls wrote:The clause may very easily not create a binding trust. It is arguably a mere explanation.

What is there that needs explaining? Why put it in, if not to create a trust?
The Charity Commission appears to have now recognised it as a trust, and that trust has now been broken.
But these questions are beyond our remit: if they are to be properly answered, the only real way is to go to court or whatever, so the relevant question would seem to be: should it be court, or should it be whatever?
Or should we just leave it all to the PHSO to sort out? Let the land be sold on again and complicate matters even further.
Or is it the case that even if the land was sold without proper legal authority then it remains irrevocably sold? That does not seem right.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:00 pm

The quoted wording does not create a trust. Maybe some other wording in the document does.

As to another question, trusts can be overreached. That is the basis of much of the Law of Property Act 1925 and the Land Registration Acts.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:17 pm

atticus wrote:The quoted wording does not create a trust.

The Charity Commission now appear to think it does.

Maybe some other wording in the document does.

I am not seeing any. Do you want me to post the whole document?

As to another question, trusts can be overreached..

Meaning what? Please excuse my ignorance.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:27 pm

I was reply ing to your point about land being "irrevocably" sold. Any remaining trust attaches to the proceeds of sale. The trust in respect of the land will have been overreached: the land is sold free of the trust.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:12 pm

atticus wrote:The trust in respect of the land will have been overreached: the land is sold free of the trust.

Then the question is of should it have been?

And that question assumes that the people who sold it actually had the proper authority to do so, which is something still in doubt.

Is there any relevance to the fact that the property was originally sold to named individuals, and not to the charity itself?
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