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Charity Cut Price Sale.

Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:15 am

dls wrote:HL, most of what you have said in this seems to have been based on a rather grubby suspicion.

No, most of what I have said is based on known facts.
You are calling all sorts of people dodgy without any apparent justification.

I've retracted the suggestion that the solicitor was dodgy: my only remaining criticism of them is that they did not better advise their client about the pursuit of their objects.

That leaves the transfer of the property from Charity A to Charity B, contrary to the wishes of the trustees of the property, the objects of the trust and against all good sense; no legal justification for this transfer has been given despite many requests, two complaints to the Parliamentary and Health Services Ombudsman and the best efforts of Charity B's solicitor.
If you do not think that is dodgy, then could you please explain it to me? If it is dodgy, then it justifies allegations of dodgyness.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 am

Have you retracted your suggestion about the estate agent yet? You know, the thing you guessed.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:01 am

I regularly see situations that are questionable. Before I guess, I investigate, I gather the facts that can be gathered. Then, if the facts support the claim, I strike. But I don't accuse people of being dodgy on guesswork and sketchy information.

That is not hot air. Two years ago, I was asked to advise clients. On investigation, it seemed clear that a trustee's breaches of fiduciary duties had cost them at least £1.5m. We sued - senior QC gave a 90% chance of success, so we did it on a CFA. More came out on disclosure. In February the defendant settled for several times that initial assessment of £1.5m.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:51 am

atticus wrote:Have you retracted your suggestion about the estate agent yet? You know, the thing you guessed.

There are plenty of reasons why a title might be classes as "dodgy", that does not mean that they ought not be sold provided there is no dishonesty involved in the sale, so there is nothing intrinsically wrong in specialising in the sale of such things.
I have been clear that my guess is a guess, the guess remains as the best guess, the agent is not identified and there is no suggestion that they are in the wrong: there is nothing there needing retracting.

atticus wrote:I regularly see situations that are questionable. Before I guess, I investigate, I gather the facts that can be gathered...

The difference is that you are paid to do the gathering, and there are potentially serious implications if you get it wrong.
I have gathered the facts so far as I am reasonably able and am simply seeking to discuss the legal ramifications of those facts.
Then, if the facts support the claim, I strike. But I don't accuse people of being dodgy on guesswork and sketchy information.

Do you have a definition of "dodgy" that is a lot more harsh than mine? Something which does not seem right, for which no reasonable explanation is forthcoming fits in my definition of dodgy: that is what we are talking about here.

The fact is that the village has been kicked out of their village hall and the villagers bullied out of opposing it. A formal investigation by the Charity Commission has failed to disclose any proper grounds for this happening: how are you not finding that as dodgy?
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:52 pm

You twice made a guess about the character of the estate agent. Read your previous posts if you don't remember.

And the fact that you are unpaid does not excuse your leaping two-footed to conclusions on the scantest of evidence.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:54 pm

atticus wrote:You twice made a guess about the character of the estate agent. Read your previous posts if you don't remember.

If I did, then what bearing does it have on the legal discussion?

And the fact that you are unpaid does not excuse your leaping two-footed to conclusions on the scantest of evidence.

I appreciate that focusing on an irrelevance that they have brought up may be a good and professional tactic when facing someone in court, but how is it supposed to be helpful here?
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:44 pm

It's relevance is to the way that you throw allegations around like confetti.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:47 pm

Hairy's previous thoughts on the relevance of that which he now says is not relevant.
Hairyloon wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:That guess has no bearing on the legal discussion.

On second thoughts, perhaps it does
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:26 pm

A fair point, except that you ignore the point.
If the guess is correct then it changes the discussion from being about an underpriced sale to one of whether a charity, well known for its high standards of morality, should sell a property that it has no proper legal reason to be holding.

If the guess is not correct, then there still remains the question of the underpriced sale.
However, further investigation suggests the answer previously given might be the correct one: the fact that the case is now on its second investigation by the PHSO does not mean that they are looking at this part of the issue, nor does the fact that the Charity Commission probably authorised the sale mean that they cannot also investigate this complaint.

But that still leaves the question of what might be done about the original transfer, which appears to have been done without lawful authority or just cause.
I think it could complicate matters further if the property was sold on again before the matter is resolved.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby dls » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:17 pm

If the guess is not correct, then there still remains the question of the underpriced sale.


What underpriced sale. You are guessing.
But that still leaves the question of what might be done about the original transfer, which appears to have been done without lawful authority or just cause.


You have not established that.
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