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Charity Cut Price Sale.

Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:52 pm

atticus wrote:Was A 'wound down' before the transfer to B, or after?

I don't know.
The transfer was because of the winding down, but I think we have discussed before that trustees remain trustees until they can pass on the trust. That would seem to me to be the relevant point.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:31 pm

The answer may lie in:

1. The terms of the sale from A to B.

2. B's charitable objects.

3. A reference to the Charity Commission complaining about the sale by B to C and the price said to have been paid.

I am not sure what standing the former trustees of A may have in relation to the onward sale by B. If B has sold to C, the sale by A cannot be undone.

I'm not sure I've got to the bottom of what "we" want, whoever "we" are. I still think investigation by the Charity Commission is likely to be their best chance of getting this all looked at and appropriate action taken.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:10 pm

atticus wrote:1. The terms of the sale from A to B.

There was no sale.
The Charity Commission said "you're disbanding and we don't agree with what you think your constitution says you should do when you disband so we're just going to give it to B."

2. B's charitable objects.

Would have been far better served by keeping the property and allowing it to be used than by the amount of funds they have gained.

I'm not sure I've got to the bottom of what "we" want, whoever "we" are.

"We" want the land put to the use to which it was intended by the people who originally raised the money to buy it for. Who "we" are is not really relevant (sorry).

I still think investigation by the Charity Commission is likely to be their best chance of getting this all looked at and appropriate action taken.

I believe they are investigating. I was wondering what they might be likely to do. Thank you for helping.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:04 pm

The terms of the transfer from A to B, then. Were any conditions attached?
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:17 pm

atticus wrote:The terms of the transfer from A to B, then. Were any conditions attached?

It should have had the trusts transferred along with it, but it was never made clear from where the authority to transfer it was derived, except that the Charity Commission appears to answer only to itself.
That said, it does now appear to have been persuaded to ask itself questions, but it did take a lot of persuading. :?
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:01 am

Hairyloon wrote:
atticus wrote:2. B's charitable objects.

Would have been far better served by keeping the property and allowing it to be used than by the amount of funds they have gained...

Especially now that we find out the numbers:
B spent over £16k on solicitor's fees and sold the property for £25k.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby miner » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:13 am

Hairyloon wrote:What will they do?


Probably absolutely nothing.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby dls » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:03 am

Once the first charity has disposed of the land properly to the second charity, nothing survives of that first charitys involvement. It is quite simply irrelevant.

For the second charity a sale is proper by either of two ways.
Either
It gets proper advice and acts upon it. This procedure is set out in the Charities Acts. If that happens, nobody else has any right to stick their nose in.
Or
It gets charity commission approval.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 am

dls wrote:Once the first charity has disposed of the land properly to the second charity, nothing survives of that first charitys involvement. It is quite simply irrelevant.

The first charity did not dispose of the land.

For the second charity a sale is proper by either of two ways.
Either
It gets proper advice and acts upon it. This procedure is set out in the Charities Acts.

And how is a client supposed to know if their solicitor's advice is proper? Are you suggesting that we should always be reading and understanding the relevant law ourselves?!
If so WTF is the point of engaging a solicitor?
And do the Charities Acts really allow a charity to act in opposition to their own objects?

ETA:Before you start, you and the other trustees must be sure that:

you have permission to sell or lease the property – either in your governing document or in the law
there is nothing in your governing document that prevents you selling or leasing the property
your charity actually owns the title to the property
the sale or lease is in the charity’s best interests
if the property is designated for a particular purpose, such as a recreation ground, that the sale or lease doesn’t go against this


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-land-and-property
I' not sure on the first two, but I think they failed on the others.
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Re: Charity Cut Price Sale.

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:03 am

Proper advice means advice from a professional with appropriate qualification and expertise.
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