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Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby atticus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:51 pm

You appear to have understood me correctly, which is why I drew attention to s14A.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby diy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:58 pm

You still need to start with - who undertook to do what and to what extent they either did it, did it badly or hid both.

Surely best practice is to start with if there is a claim and then think about what might prevent it from being made?
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby atticus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:14 pm

The OP's question was about limitation. Best practice is to discuss the question.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:50 pm

diy wrote:There is also supposed to be an air gap between the vapour membrane and the insulation, so If you are saying this roof has rafters not much bigger than 100mm...

Having now removed the ceiling, I can see a lot more clearly.
Turns out there is only 50mm celotex, and the gap is only 70mm, which sounds about right as far as that goes, but there's almost an inch gap both sides in places and maybe a foot at the bottom (may post pictures later).
Personally I wouldn't want anyone spray foaming my rafters as It will cause them to rot if ever water gets under the membrane, which it can sometimes do on a very wet/windy day.

Are we at cross purposes here? I can't relate your concern to what I intend to do. If water is getting in and not getting out, then the wood will rot and I can't see the foam making any difference either way.
atticus wrote:The OP's question was about limitation. Best practice is to discuss the question.

The question has, I think been answered. The continued input appears helpful.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby diy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:19 pm

A picture may certainly help. That gap at the bottom may have been planned in order allow ventilation. http://blog.celotex.co.uk/technical/pit ... plication/ Take care, you may be about to undertake notifiable work. To bring it up to spec is going to need at least another 50mm (more really). with 70mm rafters you will need to go with between rafter (as is) and under rafter, perhaps with the PL4065. While expensive it makes the plastering and fixing a bit easier and it has a built in additional vapour layer. http://blog.celotex.co.uk/technical/how ... your-loft/

I'm still not clear if this is a loft room, habitable room or loft conversion. It does make a difference to the required w/m2 - it could be as low as 0.28 which is fairly easy with what you have.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:36 pm

diy wrote:That gap at the bottom may have been planned in order allow ventilation. http://blog.celotex.co.uk/technical/pit ... plication/

I am not convinced that there is any airflow below the gap: it looks pretty well sealed off to me.

Take care, you may be about to undertake notifiable work...

Nah, I'm just replacing a shower cubicle... ;)
I'm still not clear if this is a loft room, habitable room or loft conversion. It does make a difference to the required w/m2 - it could be as low as 0.28 which is fairly easy with what you have.

This is a bathroom, I don't think it is any kind of conversion or extension. As such, it may not need insulating to the same standard, but we can probably assume that it is indicative of the general standard of work across the whole roof.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby atticus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:46 pm

How will the moisture in the air be dealt with?
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:21 pm

atticus wrote:How will the moisture in the air be dealt with?

That is a very good question. Up to now, I had simply assumed that the roof had been done in a suitable way and the thought had not occurred.
From the link diy provided, looks like it ought to have a breathable membrane on the outer and it doesn't. Bit of a worry really...

My best idea for the moment is a polythene sheet above the plasterboard ceiling, so that the moisture from the bathroom is not entering the roof.
The alternative is to get the roofer back and have him do it again properly...
Which is arguably what this thread was about in the first place.
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby diy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:15 pm

I think Atticus may have been thinking more along the lines of an extractor fan (also mandatory items in bathrooms, in order to comply with building control).

Is this a chalet style house or some sort of bunga-build with the roof forming part of the internal living space?

By all means do what you think will work within the budget/time, but a bathroom makes it more complex as they tend to be hot, wet and cold in a short space of time which is a recipe for moisture on the internal surfaces.

You might be better off putting it back as it was. poorly insulated does normally = better ventilated and 50mm badly fitting is still better than any house build pre-1980s
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Re: Limitation and concealed unfitness.

Postby atticus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:47 pm

I think I was thinking more along the lines of asking how the moisture in the air is going to be dealt with.

I think I was thinking more along the lines that the person doing this work would be able to answer the question.
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