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Whipped to tears.

Whipped to tears.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:28 pm

I have just heard on the wireless an unconfirmed report that the whips have reduced (at least) one MP to tears.
If an MP's duty is to exercise his best judgement, then how is he supposed to do that in the face of such pressure to not do so?
In what way is this process supposed to be democratic?
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby atticus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Nothing new there.
also this
Here's another

Bear in mind MPs stand on their party's manifesto.
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:47 pm



Doesn't actually answer the question, nor advance the debate significantly.
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:56 pm

There is a tension between the duty of Members of Parliament to act according to their own judgment and principles, and the ability of the Government to implement the programme upon which it has been elected. There is nothing undemocratic about either of those per se.

Horror stories about the whips are nothing new. IIRC there was recently a play about the dying days of the 1979 Labour Government - the whipping then was notorious, and I suspect worse than today: it was quite clear that Whips on both sides were prepared to resort to blatant blackmail. And anyone who has read Roy Jenkins' biography of HH Asquith is aware that this has been going on for a very long time.

There's another side of the coin, too. It's in the interests of the rebels to big up the threats they've been receiving, in order destroy the credibility of the Government's whipping operation, and to make the outcome look closer than it may be.
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby atticus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:58 pm

I also wrote this which the OP in what may be called his wisdom conveniently ignores
atticus wrote:Bear in mind MPs stand on their party's manifesto.


I will await something from the OP that advances the debate.
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby Hairyloon » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:26 pm

atticus wrote:I also wrote this which the OP in what may be called his wisdom conveniently ignores
atticus wrote:Bear in mind MPs stand on their party's manifesto.

Yes, you added that later...

I will await something from the OP that advances the debate.

If you could point out where in Labour's 2015 manifesto it says to leave the EU at the earliest opportunity, heedless of the consequences then that might be helpful, or in either party's manifesto where they commit to abandoning parliamentary supremacy...
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Re: Whipped to tears.

Postby Hairyloon » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:08 am

Ministers were plunged into a Brexit bullying row today as whips were accused of reducing a female MP to tears.

A male whip was alleged to have used “bully boy tactics” that left the MP trembling and crying in the Commons. It came as tensions soared ahead of a critical Brexit vote tonight where Theresa May is in danger of suffering her first major parliamentary defeat.

Tory former business minister Anna Soubry said the pressure on potential rebels to toe the line had gone too far.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/woma ... 18556.html

Julian Smith, the chief whip, allegedly threatened legal action against Tory MPs who criticised the pressuring tactics used by the government. Anna Soubry, another leading rebel, said that one MP had been reduced to tears.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -kq5jr96vx
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