A Question of Law.

[dls]

triken3 - you are dreaming. calling DD's assertion a misrepresentation is just plain silly. You can properly disagree with it, but exactly that representation was supported by a fair selection of the judges who heard it. it was approved by the High court in Northern ireland.

[Hairyloon]

I did not say that you are stupid.

But you did say they had an agenda...

[atticus]

Yes, this is so very true, and I welcome that helpful contribution. I said the things I said, and I did not say the things I did not say.

[Hairyloon]

I note you did not say anything in reply to OP's request for clarification on your allegation of their agenda...

[atticus]

Oh but I did; you appear to have misunderstood (indeed you have misquoted me earlier).

[Denning]

Highly likely. If the ingredients of the offence cannot be made out, the question becomes even dafter.

Can you elucidate by way of an example how the ingredients of an offence can be explicitly made out?

[atticus]

By evidence. You identify the elements of the offence you seek to prove, and you endeavour to prove each of them. If you are unable to prove a necessary element, your case fails.

[jantra]

now I am no expert but I thought fraud had to have an element of forethought i.e. the fraudster knows that their actions are wrong and seek to gain a pecuniary advantage or similar. i'm not sure a politician who truly believes his version of the law is looking to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

[Hairyloon]

now I am no expert but I thought fraud had to have an element of forethought i.e. the fraudster knows that their actions are wrong and seek to gain a pecuniary advantage or similar. i'm not sure a politician who truly believes his version of the law is looking to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

Wilful stupidity on that level may be offensive, but it is not an offence.

[Smouldering Stoat]

Exactamundo. The mens rea of fraud requires dishonesty: being honest but wrong, or stupid but wrong, is not enough.

For clarity I don't believe the Secretary of State was stupid. The Government's position was eminently arguable, even if they were mistaken.