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Parties donating to other parties.

Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:26 pm

"A member of the party..."
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby dls » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:56 pm

A member of the party who joins and/ or supports a political organisation other than an official Labour group or other unit of the party, or supports any candidate who stands against an official Labour candidate, or publicly declares their intent to stand against a Labour candidate, shall automatically be ineligible to be or remain a party member, subject to the provisions of Chapter 6.I.2 below of the disciplinary rules.


Which does not appear to include supporting an organisation which in turn supports another party.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:47 pm

dls wrote:
A member of the party who joins and/ or supports a political organisation other than an official Labour group or other unit of the party, or supports any candidate who stands against an official Labour candidate, or publicly declares their intent to stand against a Labour candidate, shall automatically be ineligible to be or remain a party member, subject to the provisions of Chapter 6.I.2 below of the disciplinary rules.


Which does not appear to include supporting an organisation which in turn supports another party.

Does it not?
I was taught that in a conditional statement, "or" means that if any of the stated conditions are true, then the statement returns a true result.
The rule can be re-written as:

Code: Select all
If A member of the party:
      joins and/or supports a political organisation other than an official Labour group or other unit of the party,
OR supports any candidate who stands against an official Labour candidate,
OR publicly declares their intent to stand against a Labour candidate,

Then the member  shall automatically be ineligible to be or remain a party member, subject to the provisions of... the disciplinary rules.


If Leave Labour is not an official Labour group or other unit of the party, then its members and supporters are ineligible to remain members of the party.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby dls » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:22 am

'Labour Leave' is presumably about labour party supporters in favour of leaving the EU.

It will/may include non-members. It will/may do many things to support that purpose.

They might, for example also be members of a Trades Union, which will include non party members, and making financial contributions and which Union may in turn do many things to support particular purposes, including perhaps making contributions to other political parties.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:09 pm

dls wrote:'Labour Leave' is presumably about labour party supporters in favour of leaving the EU.

Or possibly UKIP supporters flying a Labour flag of convenience, but let us run with your presumption. If this is the case, then it ought to be no great problem for them to get an official endorsement and avoid the issue.
To my mind that would still leave those responsible for the decision to donate to UKIP having some serious questions to answer. If it was my decision, I would simply boot them and allow them to appeal if they so wish.

They might, for example also be members of a Trades Union... I am minded to presume that Trades Unions have the appropriate Labour Party endorsements.
I am minded to argue that Trade Unions ought not to be political organisations and the fact that they are is the root of many of our troubles, but I think this is not the time.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby dls » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:08 am

Endorsement appears not to be an answer under the rules you cite.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:39 pm

dls wrote:Endorsement appears not to be an answer under the rules you cite.

Many, if not most Trade Unions are affiliated to the Labour Party. I assume that brings them within the definition in the rules.
Although of course if one were cynical, we might suppose they leave it deliberately woolly in order that they can more easily expell people when they want to...
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:49 pm

No. It is against the rules to be a member of "a political organisation other than an official Labour group or other unit of the party. The italicised words are important: it's not enough that an organisation is not endorsed by or affiliated to the Party, it has to be other than an official part of the Party.

So a Councillor joins the Independent Group on his Council. He can be expelled, because that Group is other than the official Labour Group. Similarly with a student who joins whatever the Young Conservatives are called these days. The test is whether there is an official Labour Group or other unit of the party that the member ought to have joined.

Your interpretation cannot stand, because there are literally thousands of political organisations which are not endorsed by the Party, and pretty much every member from the Leader down is likely to be a member of one or other of them.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby Hairyloon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:28 pm

Smouldering Stoat wrote:Your interpretation cannot stand, because there are literally thousands of political organisations which are not endorsed by the Party, and pretty much every member from the Leader down is likely to be a member of one or other of them.

If my interpretation cannot stand, then it would seem that either the cynic is right or the rules are very badly written.
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Re: Parties donating to other parties.

Postby atticus » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:47 am

From what I have seen, the Labour Party rules are not a model of excellence.
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