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Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionalised

Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby dls » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:37 pm

I thought that I must have been unfair, so I went back. It is worse than I thought

“Astonishing” claims have been made of corruption in the UK courts.

One in five people using the courts last year said they or a household member paid a bribe in relation to that, and nearly one quarter of people in the UK believe the courts and judiciary are corrupt"


Read the words.

Worldwide one in in five said they knew of a bribe.
In the UK 25% of people believe that there is corruption.

The first says _nothing_ as to the extent of judicial corruption in the UK.

It is bordering on dishonest to conflate the two as the article did, and you sadly appear to have fallen for it willingly.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby Denning » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:00 pm

dls,
What is your position as to judicial corruption in the UK judiciary?

I do not know whether you are saying there are no judicial corruption in the judiciary. If that is not your position then can you suggest an objective process through which judicial corruption can be exposed given that one area through which judicial corruption can be addressed is via appeal which that process is now to be tactically removed.

Most experienced lawyers will not run allegation of judicial corruption affecting senior judges.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby dls » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:51 pm

By a matter of common practicality there must be judicial corruption. If discovered there should be no forgiveness.

The trouble is that it is in the nature of litigation that 50% leave court disappointed. It is easy and tempting for a disappointed and uncomprehending litigant to look for an excusing suspicion of corruption. Allegations of corruption are properly distrusted.

Another example is your own (it seems to me) puzzling reaction to the story about Peter Smith J. It is in no way a story of corruption. It may be about a party to an action appearing to be successful at manipulating a judge out of a case, or about a judge being unjudgely in his correspondence. It is not a happy story of good litigation, but I fail to see where the 'corruption' is.

The bar is a small profession. Necessarily its members meet each other repeatedly both at work and socially. Saying that they do so does not point to corruption.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby Denning » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:21 pm

dls wrote:By a matter of common practicality there must be judicial corruption. If discovered there should be no forgiveness.

The trouble is that it is in the nature of litigation that 50% leave court disappointed. It is easy and tempting for a disappointed and uncomprehending litigant to look for an excusing suspicion of corruption. Allegations of corruption are properly distrusted.

Another example is your own (it seems to me) puzzling reaction to the story about Peter Smith J. It is in no way a story of corruption. It may be about a party to an action appearing to be successful at manipulating a judge out of a case, or about a judge being unjudgely in his correspondence. It is not a happy story of good litigation, but I fail to see where the 'corruption' is.

The bar is a small profession. Necessarily its members meet each other repeatedly both at work and socially. Saying that they do so does not point to corruption.

We are always told of litigants whose cases were bad but we were never told of those litigants whose cases were excellent but due to judicial corruption they lost their cases.

The crucial question is how can judicial corruption within the judiciary be discovered without the opportunity for litigants to be heard? In the past it is an automatic right for a case to be heard on appeal and any judicial corruption can be cured on appeal.

The Peter Smith J case you referred to came to light because it was heard at a higher court and probably Peter Smith J had refused to accept early retirement as he does not always rule in line with what the establishment wanted of him. It is a story of judicial corruption because
(a) Peter Smith J revealed that barristers from Blackstone Chambers were given favourable treatment by the Court. Favouritism within the Court is regarded as judicial corruption.
(b) Lord Grabiner was a member of the judiciary and the legislative branch of Government. The CA Hearing of Harb v HRH Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz [2016] EWCA Civ 556 came before judges who were his junior in the bench and they were all very closed associates to him. In addition, if my memory is correct, I read a confidential report where he provided a judicial reference to one of these appeal judges.

In many judicial jurisdictions (outside the UK) practising lawyers are prohibited from acting as judges because of conflict of interest and bias.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:24 pm

Denners, here is your chance.

Please tell us about those people with stonkingly good cases who have lost those unloseable cases due to judicial corruption.

Lest there be any doubt, I agree with dls that such a thing would be scandalous, and should rightly lead to a long prison sentence.

So, please give us your examples. Fill in the box below this post.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby Denning » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:41 pm

atticus wrote:Denners, here is your chance.

Please tell us about those people with stonkingly good cases who have lost those unloseable cases due to judicial corruption.

Lest there be any doubt, I agree with dls that such a thing would be scandalous, and should rightly lead to a long prison sentence.

So, please give us your examples. Fill in the box below this post.

I cannot see any box to fill in the names of the judges and the cases. I will not provide the names of the parties but only the judges involved and the cases.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:48 pm

Click on "post reply" or "quick reply", and by some technological wizardry a box will open up before your eyes.

Think carefully before defaming any judge; and remember this forum's no names rule.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:50 pm

You'er going to identify the cases but not the parties? Good luck with that.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby atticus » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:08 pm

Let him - within the site rules and the law - give his examples.
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Re: Consultation on Judicial Corruption to be Institutionali

Postby Denning » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:26 pm

atticus wrote:Let him - within the site rules and the law - give his examples.

Can you provide an example as to what you want me to write?
I was just thinking you accepted that I could provide names of judges given that Peter Smith J name was mentioned.
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