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Filibustering.

Filibustering.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:54 pm

There have been two incidents this week where a bill has been blocked by filibustering. The bills were to eliminate parking charges at hospitals and to clear up the rules for doctors to prescribe cheaper medication.
There does not, on the face of it appear to be any reasonable reason to oppose either bill. If there was one I would be prepared to listen to it but none has been put forward: the bill has simply been drowned in the crap that spews from politicians with nothing productive to say.

Is there any defence for the practice?
The only redeeming feature that I can see is that it helps to identify the MP's that are most full of crap. Or perhaps it should be argued that it identifies the constituencies that are most full of crap, for it is they that have chosen to be represented by it...
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby dls » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:25 pm

There does not, on the face of it appear to be any reasonable reason to oppose either bill.


ie you disagree with them. I have no idea as to the content of either, but balk at the idea that any opposition must be unreasonable.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:36 pm

dls wrote:
There does not, on the face of it appear to be any reasonable reason to oppose either bill.


ie you disagree with them. I have no idea as to the content of either, but balk at the idea that any opposition must be unreasonable.

That is not what was said.
The question of whether any opposition was reasonable or otherwise has not come up as no opposition has been tendered upon which to make that assessment because the bill was simply drowned in effluent.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby atticus » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:53 pm

It is one of the less attractive aspects of Parliamentary practice. I was listening yesterday to Jacob Rees-Mogg talking complete bollocks just to keep talking.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby dls » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:23 pm

The tactics have been around for(ever?)

It was at best innocence in the proponents to think that they would succeed. Anyone beginning a private members bill should expect to fail.

Saying that the speeches gave no particular argument against the bills does not mean "There does not, on the face of it appear to be any reasonable reason to oppose either bill."

If you run a hospital and are utterly desperate for cash, removing a real source of profit may indeed appear unreasonable.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:27 pm

What do you think are the best ways to combat it?
I think it too hard to define to enable a ban and simple time limits have their own problems.
At the moment I am wondering about imposing sanctions on the constituency, but the problem is in deciding democratically that that should be done...
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:08 pm

dls wrote:It was at best innocence in the proponents to think that they would succeed. Anyone beginning a private members bill should expect to fail.

Is that relevant?
You may enter a race expecting to come last, but does that make it right for someone to deliberately trip you up?

Saying that the speeches gave no particular argument against the bills does not mean "There does not, on the face of it appear to be any reasonable reason to oppose either bill."

Do you have a substantially different understanding to I of the phrase "on the face of it"?
I am not suggesting that there is no argument, only none that seems apparent at a casual glance.

If you run a hospital and are utterly desperate for cash, removing a real source of profit may indeed appear unreasonable.

If the amount that carers are paying for car parking makes a significant contribution to the income of a hospital, then surely that is a matter that should be properly discussed.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Slartibartfast » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:01 pm

Hairyloon wrote:What do you think are the best ways to combat it?

Why would you want to do that? Filibustering is a parliamentary tactic, it can serve good purposes as well as bad -

Senator's 11-hour speech successfully stalls bill that would close almost all abortion clinics in America's second-largest state
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... ill-speech

Hairyloon wrote:At the moment I am wondering about imposing sanctions on the constituency, but the problem is in deciding democratically that that should be done...

When you have decided, don't forget to let Parliament know the new arrangements.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Slartibartfast » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:05 pm

Say hello to Tory MP Philip Davies, who killed a private member's bill for free hospital parking for carers :

Image

Like they say, irony is dead.
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Re: Filibustering.

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:10 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:What do you think are the best ways to combat it?

Why would you want to do that? Filibustering is a parliamentary tactic, it can serve good purposes as well as bad -

Senator's 11-hour speech successfully stalls bill that would close almost all abortion clinics in America's second-largest state
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... ill-speech

If you have a point to make in relation to the governance of the United Kingdom then do please get on and make it.
What they do in America is an embarrassment to the species.
When you have decided, don't forget to let Parliament know the new arrangements.

Why should we want to involve parliament? Talking to them about democratic decisions is like talking to a fox about keeping chickens.

Slartibartfast wrote:Like they say, irony is dead.

Looks like lying to the voters: where is the irony?
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