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Her Majesty the Queen...

Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:25 am

atticus wrote:Really snappy comeback there, hairy.

We've done that already:
Smouldering Stoat wrote:Snappy come back there, Hairy.


I was moved by a Tweet by Professor Grayling:
Screenshot-2018-3-9 A C Grayling #FBPE #ABTV #WATON #OFOC on Twitter.png
Screenshot-2018-3-9 A C Grayling #FBPE #ABTV #WATON #OFOC on Twitter.png (53.58 KiB) Viewed 119 times


If, as usually claimed, we are a constitutional monarchy, then the monarch must have a constitutional role. If the monarch cannot serve as the people's last line of defence against a government that is out of control, then what purpose do they serve?

The answers currently on the table are:
a) That the powers mentioned in the book we mentioned have not been needed for centuries and therefore have been extinguished, and
b) That there is no conceivable mechanism by which those powers can be invoked.

I accept that those powers may have been modified by something that we have not yet discovered, but I do not accept that they have been extinguished through disuse, and the claim that there is no mechanism simply shows a lack of imagination.

The bigger problem is that a simple dissolution is unlikely to help: we would still be left with Sophie's choice of Corbyn or May. Marginally better than America's choice between Trump or Clinton, but there has to be a better solution than open rebellion.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:08 pm

At least we now know what moved you! (And I see that you correctly observed the similarity between my observation and stoaty's of a couple of years ago.)

Can I point out that the Queen is not the people. It also seems to me that you overlook the recent event from which the will of the people is apparently to be discerned.

Further, the constitution of the UK is a flexible and constantly developing beast. It becomes dangerous to rely on texts written more than 200 years ago.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:57 pm

atticus wrote:Can I point out that the Queen is not the people. It also seems to me that you overlook the recent event from which the will of the people is apparently to be discerned.

You mean the General Election, in which both parties set out their understanding of the Will of the People, and both were rejected?
What do you discern from that?
All this idea of a handful of men getting hold of the State machine, having the right to make the people do what suits their party and personal interests or doctrines, is completely contrary to every conception of surviving Western democracy.

Further, the constitution of the UK is a flexible and constantly developing beast. It becomes dagerous to rely on texts written more than 200 years ago.

When did Burke make his speech?
I do not suggest that we rely on the cited text (although Wikipedia claim that it is considered as part of the UK constitution), but I think we can draw guidance from it.
We have had prominent politicians openly calling almost for civil war, their minions take such calls at face value: if it comes to that, we could ask Her Majesty to referee the match.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:01 pm

I had in mind an event the previous year.

When did Locke write his treatise referred to in the tweet that you found so moving?
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:19 pm

atticus wrote:I had in mind an event the previous year.

So what is your interpretation of that event?
Do you concur with parliament that the Prime Minister said it would be binding and because the electorate have absolute trust in the Prime Minster they will have voted on that basis?
I hold that the *only* thing we can tell with certainty from that vote is that parliament is badly out of touch. Anything else is absolutely and fundamentally ambiguous.

When did Locke write his treatise referred to in the tweet that you found so moving?

1689 according to Wikipedia. Is this a variant of the ad hominem fallacy? Rather than being wrong because of who said it, it is wrong because of when it was said?
Perhaps your Latin is good enough to tell us the proper phrase for it?
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:29 pm

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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:20 pm

atticus wrote:http://swarblaw.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5194&p=109070#p109070

That'll be a yes, and a no then?
Yes, it's a fallacy and no you don't have the Latin.
No matter, I'll see if I can find it out.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:30 pm

No, it is no such thing. It's a restatement of the following
atticus wrote:... you overlook the recent event from which the will of the people is apparently to be discerned.

Further, the constitution of the UK is a flexible and constantly developing beast. It becomes dangerous to rely on texts written more than 200 years ago.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby Hairyloon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:52 pm

Still fallacious. If you have fault with the assertion, then argue against it. It is a fallacy to suggest it is void simply because it is old.
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Re: Her Majesty the Queen...

Postby atticus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:57 pm

Can I suggest that you stop suggesting that I have suggested something when I have not suggested what you suggest I suggest.
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