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The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:41 pm
by Russell
Not sure if people are aware of the Toynbee tiles but its well worth researching. They are tiles that have appeared in many places and no one knew where they came from. Anyway, it was always clear this was a mental health issue with the tiler. And it appears a team of people tracked him down and he clearly didn't want any contact with them. He's a recluse. So the team appear to want to respect, and had no direct contact with him at all. However, they have given his address out on a documentary. Which seems far worse than them having contact with him. How are people protected from this type of disclosure? I know this is a USA story but I'm still interested in the answer even if it only applies to the UK.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:04 pm
by atticus
Interesting. I'd not heard of these before. There seems to be plenty of reading matter on the subject - just use your preferred internet search engine.

People who do things anonymously are periodically unmasked in this country. I suggest that if you want to do something that might attract some interest or publicity, but without revealing your identity, you need to put in place the best measures you can to avoid detection.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:06 am
by Russell
Yes fascinating. He actually releavel his address in a tile placed in south america. Which no doubt in his version of relating that was the correct thing to do at that time. In the age of youtube it would be very difficult to enforce the non-disclosure of such information but a professional media production is very different. I have real concerns for the welfare of this individual since this docu was released. It was a number of years ago, so I will try and see if there is an update...

I guess what I'm saying is, he cannot give informed consent to his own actions. So surely, it falls to others to use ethical judgement on these things? And that state of mind is clear without even having direct contact with him.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:44 am
by atticus
Alex, please note that I have not given informed consent to write this here.

Of course he is responsible for his own actions and their consequences, in the same way that you and I are.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:16 pm
by Russell
We are at differant ends on this. I do not agree, and I'd hope the law isn't aligned with your view.

You do not need to give informed consent to anything, nor do I. We have the luxury of being mentally stable. You wouldn't say that me and you have the same physical ability as someone in a wheelchair, so I'm not sure why you think, we have the same mental capacity as someone with a mental illness.

Someone suffering from, for example, Schizophrenia doesn't have that basic mental function. Toynbee has not made a rationale choice to reveal his address. He is living in a complex and scary place, one that is leading him to act in a way that isn't in his best interest. If the law isn't able to protect him (or at least understand him on a basic level) then the law has no value. He's vulnerable and as with many who suffer from psychotic conditions his greatest vulnerability is himself.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:50 pm
by atticus
As to the law, what do you expect? Lots of people try to do things covertly or anonymously. Others seek to reveal their identity. Banksy, Belle de Jour, the Third Man, Jack the Ripper. What right do any of them have not to be unmasked?

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:58 pm
by Russell
Do any of your examples suffer from mental illness, or would widespread public disclosure damage their health in anyway, or just their bank balance?

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:11 am
by atticus
Alex - how should anyone know? These people do these things behind a cloak of secrecy.

Or is it your thesis that if you do something covertly/anonymously that piques public interest in your identity you must have mental health issues?

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:34 pm
by Russell
In this instance its very clearly that everyone who disclosed the address would know, as they clearly stated it within the documentary.

Re: The Toynbee Tiles

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:46 pm
by Smouldering Stoat
Russell wrote:Do any of your examples suffer from mental illness, or would widespread public disclosure damage their health in anyway, or just their bank balance?


I think being unmasked would have been quite bad for Jack the Ripper's health. Being hanged is generally considered incompatible with living a long and happy life.