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Suicide and the right to life.

Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Hairyloon » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:54 pm

atticus wrote:That is not an opinion I share, noting that your boiling down consists of quoting the first sentence and chucking away the rest.

Part 2 can clearly be chucked since it relates to the use of force in defence and arrest, so that leaves: "No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law."
Which appears to be designed to allow for lawful executions.
Since we do not have the death penalty in this country, that part can also be chucked.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby atticus » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:19 pm

As you wish: so those other words have no purpose or meaning. I have given my view.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Slartibartfast » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:36 pm

And so we are left with "No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally..."

I do not see how a modest reduction in housing benefit can equate to intention to kill. it is possible that for some sad souls, this comes as the final straw and causes them to commit suicide. But people in that state of mind (one foot on the ledge, so to speak) could be tipped into despair by any new adversity.

I despise the present govt for various reasons, but this is not one of them. It is scandalous that homeless families with young children are living in miserable, expensive B&B accommodation while middle-aged single people have a whole house. The taxpayer is entitled to expect a more sensible allocation of resources.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Smouldering Stoat » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:33 pm

Up to a point, yes. But for some the reduction in HB is not so modest, nor are there necessarily any smaller properties into which it is possible to move.

Moreover, the report I referred to above is about benefit sanctions, many of which seem to be dreadfully unjust.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Slartibartfast » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:00 pm

Apologies for misrepresenting your point, Stoaty. You make a fair point that for some people the HB changes are a significant challenge, and there is indeed a shortage of trade-down smaller homes in some areas.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Hairyloon » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:42 am

Slartibartfast wrote:And so we are left with "No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally..."

Is there not some point when a wilful disregard for the consequences effectively equates to an intent?
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby atticus » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:21 am

You could trawl ECHR cases, and report back.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby dls » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:50 am

There is but there are a very substantial range of contexts (civil and criminal), consequences, and of intent.

Here, there could not be a sufficiently close connection between an action and the consequences you suggest might follow.
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Hairyloon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:52 am

atticus wrote:You could trawl ECHR cases, and report back.

I have not found an answer to the original question, but they do, on the whole concur with my distillation of the rule: Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law.

And the answers off the board appear to centre on the difficulties in relating the consequences to the victim with the actions of the state, so what if we hypothesise a scenario where that relationship is concreted...

Consider a chap beset by a selection of stresses imposed upon him by the state. We can assume that they are not intentional, but for the purpose of discussion we can take them as culpably negligent, or whatever an appropriate term might be.

He visits his doctor with depression and writes to his MP about the issues causing that depression. Between these, the link is clearly established, and there is an opportunity to present a remedy.
No remedy is presented and instead more stress is piled on which proves too much for the chap who tops himself after writing a clear note explaining why...

Would that cover it?
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Re: Suicide and the right to life.

Postby Slartibartfast » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:28 pm

No
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