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Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby atticus » Sun May 29, 2016 7:23 pm

There's a point. Can the friend stump up some cash?
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Sun May 29, 2016 9:09 pm

I could not care less whether my stepson as a beneficiary gets a penny from the trust or not as he has defaulted on loans and has no remorse. He should turn himself in and accept the consequences even if that means a term in jail. My main worry is his mother who is recovering from cancer and does not need the hassle. The trust was the only chance we had to assist and the Trustees seem reluctant to even talk about the chances of a payment from the trust. I will repeat in plain English - Can the trustees make a payment to a Beneficiary if they think fit? YES or NO?
Now I will give you the remaining complete terms of the trust as stated in the will.
4.7 My Trustees shall have the following powers:
4.7.1 To retain or sell any of the assets constituting the trust fund
4.7.2 To invest as if they were beneficiary entitled and this power includes the right to invest in non-income producing assets including policies of life assurance.
4.7.3 To hold investments in the name of such person or body as they think fit.
4.7.4 To borrow money on such terms as they think fit and to use it for any purpose for which the capital of the Trust Fund may be used.
4.7.5 In exercising the statuary power of appointing new trustees to appoint a professional person and to give him the right to charge for work done by him or his firm.
4.7.6 To make retentions for any taxes for which they may be liable.
4.7.7 To appropriate to the Trust Fund any asset forming part of my residuary estate.
4.7.8 To do anything incidental to the powers which my Trustees have whether given by statute or under these rules.
4.8 The Standard Provisions of the Society of Trust and Estate
Practitioners (1st edition) shall apply with the deletion of paragraph 5.
Section 11 Trust of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1966 (consultantation with beneficiaries) shall not apply.
I will add that my stepsons half brother has said that all the trusts assets are invested in property and there is no liquidity in the fund. This may be true or not, but may have a bearing on their reluctance to offer any thing up.
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Sun May 29, 2016 9:17 pm

Atticus if you read the initial post it stated 'his friend did a runner' (absconded, vanished, in hiding,) somewhere in the UAE
So no I do not think he can help.
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby shootist » Sun May 29, 2016 9:25 pm

Some other interesting points are...

my stepson takes after his dad & is also a wastrel..


He has other debts which means he cannot leave Dubai until the debts are paid.


Then why does he need his passport if he can't leave Dubai until the debts are paid? A wastrel will remain a wastrel while ever someone else picks up the tab. Perhaps he could get a job in Dubai and actually earn the money? What was he doing in Dubai in the first place, it's hardly on a financial level of a week in Skegness? Why are you only looking for £3,500 if he needs more to get out of Dubai? How much more does he owe? If it's another grand or so get a loan, secured on your home maybe, pay it off and get him back. If it's more then get a bigger loan, a re-mortgage perhaps. If you aren't willing to risk a proportion of your home then perhaps he's not worth it. Perhaps granny had here head screwed on. His mother is getting the hassle from her son who is a wastrel. It's his responsibility to sort it out, not anyone else's.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby atticus » Sun May 29, 2016 9:52 pm

You simply said he'd done a runner. I assumed left Dubai but that his whereabouts were known.

Now that you have, after being asked three times, read my question, I confirm that my view of what the trustees may do is as stated previously.
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Sun May 29, 2016 10:11 pm

After three times- What is your question? You state - 'I confirm that in my view of what the trustees may do is as stated previously'! What did the Trustees state?
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Sun May 29, 2016 10:30 pm

Shootist, He needs a passport so he can get a work permit, get a job and pay off his debts. He went to Dubai for a fresh start, however he carried on as he did before, and the debts piled up. His mother and I have bailed him out enough so no more from us. The Trust was his last resort. Whether or not he is entitled to anything from the Trust I could not care less. My main bone of contention is this - The Trust seems somewhat reluctant to say what my Stepsons entitlements are if any. The main beneficiary (his dad) cannot find out what's in the Trust or what it's invested in. The other beneficiary thinks that all the trusts assets are in property run by one of the Trustees sons (this maybe true or not) and there is no liquidity so no payouts, that's why the reluctance. For me it is the attitude of the Trustees and their ulterior motives? What's in it for them?
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby shootist » Sun May 29, 2016 11:24 pm

mikthemanc wrote:Shootist, He needs a passport so he can get a work permit, get a job and pay off his debts. He went to Dubai for a fresh start, however he carried on as he did before, and the debts piled up. His mother and I have bailed him out enough so no more from us. The Trust was his last resort. Whether or not he is entitled to anything from the Trust I could not care less. My main bone of contention is this - The Trust seems somewhat reluctant to say what my Stepsons entitlements are if any. The main beneficiary (his dad) cannot find out what's in the Trust or what it's invested in. The other beneficiary thinks that all the trusts assets are in property run by one of the Trustees sons (this maybe true or not) and there is no liquidity so no payouts, that's why the reluctance. For me it is the attitude of the Trustees and their ulterior motives? What's in it for them?


Ah! It's not the money, it's the principle. Those words have enriched lawyers over the centuries more than any others. Basically, it seems to me that the trust, he say 'No!" Dress it up however you like, I suspect that they have the final word.

I am still interested in your attitude to all this. You speak as if you and his mother are both determined that you have bailed him out enough, and so it's time that someone else bailed him out. I can only repeat that while ever he is bailed out, no matter who is doing the bailing, he will remain a wastrel because at most he suffers only inconvenience as the result of his uselessness. I would normally dislike saying that had you and his mother not bailed him out so readily he would probably not be in difficulty so far from home. God knows why such a person would think they would get a fresh start in Dubai unless it was to avoid some of the more frisky debt collectors that are about in this country. Understanding this is the first step to actually helping him rather than subsidising his stupidity.

You suggest his passport has expired. If this is the case then perhaps he could renew it at the consulate or embassy. If his mate has buggered off to the UAE then why not him? If I was a cynical person I might be persuaded that this whole Dubai thing is a story to cover a basic intention to see what can be tapped out of the trust fund, but I am sure that this could not be said of you.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death my right to be offended by it."
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Mon May 30, 2016 10:09 am

His mother and I to a lesser extent have bailed him out for less than £1000, and he has not had one penny whilst he has been in Dubai over the last seven years.
We had sparse contact with him & when we did he was evasive. His mother was very worried and the only way to get the story was for me to go to Dubai. My son very kindly paid for me to go there. Not being able to get him to spill the beans I sought out his ex girlfriend who filled some of the blanks. He has defaulted on a loan to a Dubai Bank and is unemployed due to no work permit. I realised he was in big trouble that's why I persuaded him (under protest) to go to the British Embassy. Their advice as well as mine was that he has to give himself up and accept the consequences even if that means a term in jail.
He is burying his head in the sand (of which there is plenty). The Trust to me is a secondary issue, and it was him who contacted them.
When I returned to the UK I contacted his father to inform him of his sons problems. After that meeting the a Trustee contacted me out of the blue (his father must have spoke to his brother the Trustee) The trustee said it was not possible to help. fine by me. However the Trustee seemed to be exteremely evasive when I asked a couple of questions. Its my curiosity how trusts work NOT principles that interest me. I will keep asking the question 'Will my stepson be entitled to anything out of the Trust? no more no less - that's why I came onto this forum. I also do not believe in inheritance and have many arguments down the pub regarding 'My entitlement' to my parents assets
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Re: Dad & Son-Wastrels! Son stuck in Dubai

Postby mikthemanc » Mon May 30, 2016 11:01 am

Sorry Atticus I did not read your reply properly so ignore my 11.11pm post - I get what you wrote
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