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REnt a house in probate

Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby atticus » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:10 am

What you are describing bears all the hallmarks of a joint tenancy (see above).

Have you done this yet? If not, you should.
You may need to ask someone to help you review the deeds/Land Registry title information.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby Beverley » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:31 pm

downloaded a copy of the deeds from the land registry, is there a difference between the wording of tenants and proprietors? just want to know who now owns the house, if its my brother brilliant I don't have to do anything, if its still my mum and brother can I rent it out?
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby atticus » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:39 pm

I apologise if this is harsh. Please just show the thing to someone who knows and can explain. Posting on this internet forum we do not have the advantage of seeing it, and your posts give me little confidence in the sufficiency of your description.

You need to know the status of this property.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby Beverley » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:56 pm

Thanks Atticus not harsh at all, its getting a little complicated for me now as to many people are telling me different things, so I will have to take it to a solicitor to sort out.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby dls » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:10 am

You will see that we had a long discussion about executors/administrators renting out property.

The answer is 'No, but sometimes Yes a bit'

Your job is to sell. Your powers to do otherwise are very limited.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby theycantdothat » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:49 am

Where two or more people hold property for their own benefit there are two possibilities:

1. They own the property as joint tenants. If that is the case then on the death of an owner the property belongs to the survivor(s). Thus if A, B and C own a property as joint tenants if A dies the property belongs to B and C. It does not matter what is in A 's will or who A's estate goes to if there is no will.

2. They own the property as tenants-in-common. If that is the case then on the death of an owner his share goes to his estate. Thus if A, B and C own a property as tenant-in-commons if A dies the property belongs to A's estate, B and C. The important and possibly confusing thing here is that although the property is held for the benefit of A's estate, B and C, it is held in the names of B and C. A's personal representatives do not (in layman's terms) "go on the deeds" on A's death. This means that when property is held as tenants-in-common and one owner dies the question of whether and when personal representatives can grant tenancies does not arise.

Where the property is registered it is not possible to tell conclusively from looking at the register how the propety is held. This is because it is a principle of registered land that it does not concern itself with beneficial interests except to afford means of protecting them. There is therefore the possibility that beneficial interests exist which are not protected and that an entry purporting to protect benefical interest is no longer relevant. There is no such thing as an entry on the register which indicates whether or not property is held as joint tenants or tenants-in-common. What there is is a restriction in the following form:

No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

This will be entered on the register (a) if on a disposition the deed shows that the property is held as tenants-in-common and (b) if an applicaton is made for the restriction to be entered on the register following the severance of a joint tenancy, that is when a joint tenancy is converted to a tenancy-in-common. The presence of the restriction on the register, whilst a strong indication that the property is held as tenants-in-common is not conclusive. This is because a tenancy-in-common may have been converted to a joint tenancy. The absence of a restriction is also not conclusive. Whilst it shows that when the property was registered it was held on a joint tenancy, it cannot be assumed that the joint tenancy has not been severed at some time after registration. None of this worries a purchaser of the property. All that concerns him is whether or not there is a restriction on the register. However, on the death of an owner who is entitled to what is very important and the position needs to be investigated. In practice in the absence of evidence to the contrary or someone popping up and saying it is different, there will be an assumption that the presence or absence of the restriction tells the story.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby Beverley » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:28 am

Thanks for all the help and advise guys much appreciated, I've now been told it is tenants in common. although ambiguous wording if my brother wants more then 50% he can take it and a court battle ensues if it is challenged by other beneficiaries.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby theycantdothat » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:17 am

Beverley wrote:Thanks for all the help and advise guys much appreciated, I've now been told it is tenants in common. although ambiguous wording if my brother wants more then 50% he can take it and a court battle ensues if it is challenged by other beneficiaries.


I would be interested to see the ambiguous wording.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby Beverley » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:38 pm

I can only assume my brother has taken the same deeds I have downloaded from the land registry website, maybe it relates to the section that says - RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court
or
The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants referred to in the Charges Register and of indemnity in respect thereof.
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Re: REnt a house in probate

Postby theycantdothat » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:55 pm

Beverley wrote:I can only assume my brother has taken the same deeds I have downloaded from the land registry website, maybe it relates to the section that says - RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court
or
The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants referred to in the Charges Register and of indemnity in respect thereof.


Any ambiguity will not appear on the register and there is in any event nothing ambiguous about the restriction or the other entry. Who is suggesting there is an ambiguity?
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